Labour activists doing their job and then being sued for exposing labour exploitation should not be left out. Andy Hall has been forced to leave Thailand after trying to defend himself. This is a dangerous precedent that concerns anyone working on labour issues.
Unfortunate truth is these reporters as well as so-called aid workers and this and that agencies guys and so-called academics all come to the region with articles already submitted for publications of their own flavour. A scene seen all the time, all around the world. What will be written is always exactly the same. e.g. For Rohingya the articles written now are exactly the same as the ones since 2011 every single year.
Same seen in Syria, Venezuela, everywhere.
that way they are disadvantaging the people on the ground worse off as no one will believe if someone do say the rare truth.
So, not a supporter but an admirer. Your comment above is ample proof, thanks.
Now just a couple of things. The Tak Bai massacre and the Yaa Baa killings. These are covered under the overt disappeared that I mentioned above. Can you point to anything Taksin has done to bring the perpetrators to justice.
‘Why is anybody banned from Rakhine state? There must be something fishing going on, no?’
Precisely. And that is the reason why nobody is allowed to visit the camps for ‘illegal migrants’ in Malaysia either. When Irene Fernandez from Tenaganita did so, she was arrested and prosecuted by the authorities…
If vigilantism has its origins deep in hominid evolution, then it will have become hard-wired, and may be a root cause of many types of punitive social behaviour, for example religious persecution. That would make a broad definition of “vigilantism” necessary. An alternative would be to find another term for the informal punitive mass behaviour that afflicts the whole of humanity.
Thailand should immediately release Pai Dao Din. This very young Thai activist is currently incarcerated with a lese majeste charge for an online posting of a BBC article pertaining to the Thai monarchy.
Well, yes, and that ‘s probably a part of the problem; the new head boy didn’t speak to him directly but sent a message through his ádvisors’. Probably the new head boy won’t speak to Uncle at all unless Uncle is crawling on his belly first; that seems to be the normal way of things in those parts.
So in his usual deceitful, mendacious and designed-to-deceive-and-save-face way, Uncle Too says the new head boy didn’t ask anything at all.
We always have to bear in mind while trying to decipher Thai politics, that we aren’t dealing with sparkling intellects here, especially when dealing with army types.
But the orders have been received and understood and are being acted upon whether they came from the new head boy or not, so I suppose that’s the important thing. I do however sometimes wish that these people would stop swearing blind that black is white and understand that not everyone is of the same intellectual calibre as them.
Speaking of which, I read a report in the last month (Bangkok Post as I recall). that the average Thai IQ has now increased to be ‘somewhere between 90 and 120’. Whatever that means to anyone who knows anything about statistics – or anything at all really. Remarkable though, because it means that if the average IQ in TL is 120, and has increased by 30 points in the past 2 years since the previous last test was done, when it was reported as 90; itself an increase of 3 points over the previous test done the previous year. Remarkable, all down to Uncle Too of course. A bit rum though, and unlikely to be true or even almost true. The TL Govt says it’s all down to diet and nothing at all to do with the dire education system that everyone knows Uncle Too fixed up last year.
I think I must have strayed into the main circus tent a while back, everyone seems to be wearing red noses and baggy trousers. Time for a cup of tea and a nice lie down…
Why is anybody banned from Rakhine state? There must be something fishing going on, no?
FYI, quite a few international NGOs are present in Rakhine state, although access by individuals are heavily restricted. These foreign organizations have been updating the world’s media of the appalling conditions in the area.
Jim T obviously is very up to date on Red-Black shirts events and any on-going junta intimidation and arrest or disappeared of Red leaders. But why is that notorious Red leader Arisman, of the million-petrol-filled plastics bags burn-Bangkok-down notorious rant, not been arrested or whatever? Could Jim T explain why Arisman is spared by Gen Prayuth while small fish and minor leaders are supposedly being hunted or disappeared?
“[The] government’s ambivalence in dealing with the Defence of Islam protests […] is a large-scale enactment of a routine interaction between the state and vigilantes […] [Massive] public mobilisation against Jakarta’s embattled governor has little to do with actual law enforcement. As in all acts of vigilantism, public and spectacular punishment is sought to deter others of Ahok’s ethnic and religious background from challenging the established social order.”
In the article, hasn’t the author already classified and categorised different types of vigilantism into tidy boxes? Thus, the article should not have lumped acts of mass-vigilantism against Ahok in the same category as petty-vigilantism. This is gross generalisation (re: culturalism).
Were every participants in the 411 and 212 rallies vigilantes? All 700 thousand of them? (I’m excluding the TV-watching simpathisers here)
Petty vigilantism has singular short-term goals and is spontaneously committed after the offense. The anti-Ahok rallies were meticulously designed, mobilised, and most certainly well-funded by elites with various political agenda. They were mass mobilisation exercises, but I would not even call them vigilantism as the entire process was conducted legitimately and was guarded by the law enforcement agencies.
I think the problem lies in confusing vigilantism with rioting. The anti-Ahok rallies included some small-scale riots, yes, but there were no vigilantism committed. Ahok and his supporters were safe and sound. In fact, all these rallies’ demand is for the government to take Ahok to court and legally faced the consequence of his perceived offences.
If the purpose of the rallies (not the riots) was “to deter others of Ahok’s ethnic and religious background from challenging the established social order” as the article claimed, then by this logic the anti-Trump rallies in the U.S. were aimed to deter Trump’s supporters from exercising their constitutionally-guaranteed new political dominance.
Simplistic, right?
Vigilantism is in the eye of the beholder. Let’s stop confusing it with democratic processes (no matter how undesirable), shall we?
Chris, although now dated see: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2016/07/11/military-denies-knowledge-missing-anti-monarchy-dissident/
Disregard the nonsense remark in this piece by pro-DP exiled Somsak Jiem who thrives on political ambiguity. iLaw Freedom may have more up to date information. Evidence of cross border intrusion by Thai junta spies is in fact well known in their hunting for redshirts in a compact between the junta’s neighbours,,,
Looks like Uncle wants to rewrite history again ………………
A furious Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha insisted Thursday that His Majesty the King did not ask the government to amend the new constitution as reported by the media.
If Jim’s account is true, then the sovereignty of the Lao PDR borders has been grossly infringed upon by Prayut’s government. The last time a Thai military regime – way back in the 1980’s infringed on the Lao PDR. – Thailand’s pathetic military suffered defeat. Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it, the second time as farce.
As one of the Australian eminences grise once said, “sometimes you can’t believe your luck and sometimes you can’t believe your ears” (or in this case, eyes, since it was in one of the Thai news-rags this morning.
Evidently, one of the changes which the new head-boy in Th has ‘advised’ (for which read ‘commanded’) be made to the allegedly ‘approved by the Thai people’ draft constitution, is a section related to the role of the president of the Privy Council (Prem), in becoming Regent if the King is either overseas or incapacitated. We’ll overlook for the moment whose signature appears on the appointment of that nice Mr Prayuth as head honcho after his illegal coup-détat.
In my humble opinion, this clause is key to Uncle Too’s power over the new head boy since he (Uncle Too) could simply declare him (the new head boy) as debunked overseas or ‘non compos mentis’ if he became uppity and all disobedient and stuff.
Not any more it seems, Prem is about to be neutered, and bye-bye goes the iron grip of the army over the new guy. It’s delightful in many ways, poetic even since the decrepit old schemer and the playboy new-head-boy have hated each other since Adam was a lad, and this is the first kick to the testicles that the new boy has attempted since, well, since becoming head-boy. It’s come much more quickly than I thought it would, and yes, I’ve had a sneaking suspicion for a while that a cuckoo has been being reared in that particular nest. I’m beginning to like the cut of this cuckoo’s jib.
I think the confrontation I suggested was pending has come quite a lot closer to being a reality, Uncle Too is reportedly furious beyond fathoming, Prem is likely suicidal (which would be no bad thing for Thailand imho).
Time will tell, but I sense the ground is shifting under the feet of the jolly rag-tag band of treasonous buccaneers. If what I think is happening is actually happening, that shifting will become seismic in the coming days, weeks and months. Pistols at dawn may be in the tea-leaves.
By the way. Rumours about a certain closeness between someone close to the man in Dubai and someone close to the new head boy have reared up again. Couldn’t be surely? Nah, that would be too priceless.
All the indications are that it’s going to be a very entertaining year, is 2017.
Blatant violence against ‘out-groups’ is rarer in Malaysia, though not unknown (remember 1999 or the treatment of ‘illegal immigrants’ in camps). What we have there is more in the nature of structural violence against deviants which is increasing at the moment.
N.B.: Since hardly anybody is allowed to visit the affected areas in Rakhine, the evidence should not be discounted, but treated with care.
tuck, you are seeing liars all around, your advanced state has become a little worrying. หมอหยอง didn’t actually disappear, he merely experienced an unhappy interrogation and a consequent unseemly swift cremation.
However, your wriggling around the naming of the VIP is indicative of the censorious power of Thailand’s untouchable class. Unlike in India, these people are at the very top of the power structure, wallowing in obscene wealth. If they can unilaterally alter a constitution then getting away with the odd disappearance here or there must be a matter of a wave of the hand.
Indeed, I must thank you for the fine display of avoidance you have performed in this sub-thread. Implicating someone from this elite class would put you and/or your family in real danger and we don’t want to see that. It is though, a raw example of the force of terror in many Asian societies, thank you.
Laoguy/Tuck. feeding on each others strong views leads to a black hole. To set the record straight Laoguy: I am not a “supporter” of Thaksin as you claim. I never even said I liked him (though I may have done if I actually knew him). But, unlike many dogmatic and self-opinionated colleagues, I assessed the evidence on the ground, read widely, rather than from a one-sided distorted amaat controlled media. Thaksin was in fact done badly leading up to the coup. He was sincere in working for ordinary Thais (ask peasant or working class Thais who mostly benefited from his policies [– well, maybe not right now though]). It is ludicrous to assert that he “disappeared people” as Laoguy claimed. He was a businessman not a thug, and highly effective if authoritative and unbending; a political leader who brought Thailand out of an entrenched period of international debt. And if you have open eyes regarding political events past decade or so it will be evident that the military-amaat-royalist propaganda (starting with Sondhi Lim’s lies and misinformation in 2005) was intent on bringing him down, precisely because he was so damn good at what he was doing at the time and esteemed by the masses. In this matter, he brushed against the monarchy regime. The consequence of which we see today in his permanent exile.
This article invites us to indulge in some deep anthropological speculation on the fascinating topic of vigilantism. Its origins are likely to be much more ancient than most other institutions. The most ancient form I can think of is punishment meted out to some individual for an egregious violation of the social order amongst a troop of chimpanzees. Low-order members join in the violence in the hope that their contribution will lead to social advancement. Institutionalised punitive control probably has its origins there, as do even the state and the justice system.
“Sufayat Ullah (20), a madrassa student, said he was home with his family on the morning of the attack and the first thing he registered was the sound of gunfire. He realised quickly, he said, that he could survive only by escaping. “When they found people close by, they attacked them with machetes,” he said. “If they were far away, they shot them.””
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Tough year for human rights in Southeast Asia
Labour activists doing their job and then being sued for exposing labour exploitation should not be left out. Andy Hall has been forced to leave Thailand after trying to defend himself. This is a dangerous precedent that concerns anyone working on labour issues.
Doctor, my eyes
Yes Steve is correct, but also the co-payment is in place again, so there has hardly been at threat to it at all.
Race to the bottom
Unfortunate truth is these reporters as well as so-called aid workers and this and that agencies guys and so-called academics all come to the region with articles already submitted for publications of their own flavour. A scene seen all the time, all around the world. What will be written is always exactly the same. e.g. For Rohingya the articles written now are exactly the same as the ones since 2011 every single year.
Same seen in Syria, Venezuela, everywhere.
that way they are disadvantaging the people on the ground worse off as no one will believe if someone do say the rare truth.
A response to the Thai government
So, not a supporter but an admirer. Your comment above is ample proof, thanks.
Now just a couple of things. The Tak Bai massacre and the Yaa Baa killings. These are covered under the overt disappeared that I mentioned above. Can you point to anything Taksin has done to bring the perpetrators to justice.
Race to the bottom
‘Why is anybody banned from Rakhine state? There must be something fishing going on, no?’
Precisely. And that is the reason why nobody is allowed to visit the camps for ‘illegal migrants’ in Malaysia either. When Irene Fernandez from Tenaganita did so, she was arrested and prosecuted by the authorities…
Justice by numbers
If vigilantism has its origins deep in hominid evolution, then it will have become hard-wired, and may be a root cause of many types of punitive social behaviour, for example religious persecution. That would make a broad definition of “vigilantism” necessary. An alternative would be to find another term for the informal punitive mass behaviour that afflicts the whole of humanity.
Another year over
Thailand should immediately release Pai Dao Din. This very young Thai activist is currently incarcerated with a lese majeste charge for an online posting of a BBC article pertaining to the Thai monarchy.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/1179341/pai-dao-din-is-without-question-a-role-model
.
The futility of Prayuth’s war on truth
Well, yes, and that ‘s probably a part of the problem; the new head boy didn’t speak to him directly but sent a message through his ádvisors’. Probably the new head boy won’t speak to Uncle at all unless Uncle is crawling on his belly first; that seems to be the normal way of things in those parts.
So in his usual deceitful, mendacious and designed-to-deceive-and-save-face way, Uncle Too says the new head boy didn’t ask anything at all.
We always have to bear in mind while trying to decipher Thai politics, that we aren’t dealing with sparkling intellects here, especially when dealing with army types.
But the orders have been received and understood and are being acted upon whether they came from the new head boy or not, so I suppose that’s the important thing. I do however sometimes wish that these people would stop swearing blind that black is white and understand that not everyone is of the same intellectual calibre as them.
Speaking of which, I read a report in the last month (Bangkok Post as I recall). that the average Thai IQ has now increased to be ‘somewhere between 90 and 120’. Whatever that means to anyone who knows anything about statistics – or anything at all really. Remarkable though, because it means that if the average IQ in TL is 120, and has increased by 30 points in the past 2 years since the previous last test was done, when it was reported as 90; itself an increase of 3 points over the previous test done the previous year. Remarkable, all down to Uncle Too of course. A bit rum though, and unlikely to be true or even almost true. The TL Govt says it’s all down to diet and nothing at all to do with the dire education system that everyone knows Uncle Too fixed up last year.
I think I must have strayed into the main circus tent a while back, everyone seems to be wearing red noses and baggy trousers. Time for a cup of tea and a nice lie down…
Race to the bottom
Why is anybody banned from Rakhine state? There must be something fishing going on, no?
FYI, quite a few international NGOs are present in Rakhine state, although access by individuals are heavily restricted. These foreign organizations have been updating the world’s media of the appalling conditions in the area.
A response to the Thai government
Jim T obviously is very up to date on Red-Black shirts events and any on-going junta intimidation and arrest or disappeared of Red leaders. But why is that notorious Red leader Arisman, of the million-petrol-filled plastics bags burn-Bangkok-down notorious rant, not been arrested or whatever? Could Jim T explain why Arisman is spared by Gen Prayuth while small fish and minor leaders are supposedly being hunted or disappeared?
Justice by numbers
“[The] government’s ambivalence in dealing with the Defence of Islam protests […] is a large-scale enactment of a routine interaction between the state and vigilantes […] [Massive] public mobilisation against Jakarta’s embattled governor has little to do with actual law enforcement. As in all acts of vigilantism, public and spectacular punishment is sought to deter others of Ahok’s ethnic and religious background from challenging the established social order.”
In the article, hasn’t the author already classified and categorised different types of vigilantism into tidy boxes? Thus, the article should not have lumped acts of mass-vigilantism against Ahok in the same category as petty-vigilantism. This is gross generalisation (re: culturalism).
Were every participants in the 411 and 212 rallies vigilantes? All 700 thousand of them? (I’m excluding the TV-watching simpathisers here)
Petty vigilantism has singular short-term goals and is spontaneously committed after the offense. The anti-Ahok rallies were meticulously designed, mobilised, and most certainly well-funded by elites with various political agenda. They were mass mobilisation exercises, but I would not even call them vigilantism as the entire process was conducted legitimately and was guarded by the law enforcement agencies.
I think the problem lies in confusing vigilantism with rioting. The anti-Ahok rallies included some small-scale riots, yes, but there were no vigilantism committed. Ahok and his supporters were safe and sound. In fact, all these rallies’ demand is for the government to take Ahok to court and legally faced the consequence of his perceived offences.
If the purpose of the rallies (not the riots) was “to deter others of Ahok’s ethnic and religious background from challenging the established social order” as the article claimed, then by this logic the anti-Trump rallies in the U.S. were aimed to deter Trump’s supporters from exercising their constitutionally-guaranteed new political dominance.
Simplistic, right?
Vigilantism is in the eye of the beholder. Let’s stop confusing it with democratic processes (no matter how undesirable), shall we?
A response to the Thai government
Chris, although now dated see: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2016/07/11/military-denies-knowledge-missing-anti-monarchy-dissident/
Disregard the nonsense remark in this piece by pro-DP exiled Somsak Jiem who thrives on political ambiguity. iLaw Freedom may have more up to date information. Evidence of cross border intrusion by Thai junta spies is in fact well known in their hunting for redshirts in a compact between the junta’s neighbours,,,
The futility of Prayuth’s war on truth
Looks like Uncle wants to rewrite history again ………………
A furious Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha insisted Thursday that His Majesty the King did not ask the government to amend the new constitution as reported by the media.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/1179057/
A response to the Thai government
If Jim’s account is true, then the sovereignty of the Lao PDR borders has been grossly infringed upon by Prayut’s government. The last time a Thai military regime – way back in the 1980’s infringed on the Lao PDR. – Thailand’s pathetic military suffered defeat. Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it, the second time as farce.
The futility of Prayuth’s war on truth
As one of the Australian eminences grise once said, “sometimes you can’t believe your luck and sometimes you can’t believe your ears” (or in this case, eyes, since it was in one of the Thai news-rags this morning.
Evidently, one of the changes which the new head-boy in Th has ‘advised’ (for which read ‘commanded’) be made to the allegedly ‘approved by the Thai people’ draft constitution, is a section related to the role of the president of the Privy Council (Prem), in becoming Regent if the King is either overseas or incapacitated. We’ll overlook for the moment whose signature appears on the appointment of that nice Mr Prayuth as head honcho after his illegal coup-détat.
In my humble opinion, this clause is key to Uncle Too’s power over the new head boy since he (Uncle Too) could simply declare him (the new head boy) as debunked overseas or ‘non compos mentis’ if he became uppity and all disobedient and stuff.
Not any more it seems, Prem is about to be neutered, and bye-bye goes the iron grip of the army over the new guy. It’s delightful in many ways, poetic even since the decrepit old schemer and the playboy new-head-boy have hated each other since Adam was a lad, and this is the first kick to the testicles that the new boy has attempted since, well, since becoming head-boy. It’s come much more quickly than I thought it would, and yes, I’ve had a sneaking suspicion for a while that a cuckoo has been being reared in that particular nest. I’m beginning to like the cut of this cuckoo’s jib.
I think the confrontation I suggested was pending has come quite a lot closer to being a reality, Uncle Too is reportedly furious beyond fathoming, Prem is likely suicidal (which would be no bad thing for Thailand imho).
Time will tell, but I sense the ground is shifting under the feet of the jolly rag-tag band of treasonous buccaneers. If what I think is happening is actually happening, that shifting will become seismic in the coming days, weeks and months. Pistols at dawn may be in the tea-leaves.
By the way. Rumours about a certain closeness between someone close to the man in Dubai and someone close to the new head boy have reared up again. Couldn’t be surely? Nah, that would be too priceless.
All the indications are that it’s going to be a very entertaining year, is 2017.
Race to the bottom
Blatant violence against ‘out-groups’ is rarer in Malaysia, though not unknown (remember 1999 or the treatment of ‘illegal immigrants’ in camps). What we have there is more in the nature of structural violence against deviants which is increasing at the moment.
N.B.: Since hardly anybody is allowed to visit the affected areas in Rakhine, the evidence should not be discounted, but treated with care.
A response to the Thai government
tuck, you are seeing liars all around, your advanced state has become a little worrying. หมอหยอง didn’t actually disappear, he merely experienced an unhappy interrogation and a consequent unseemly swift cremation.
However, your wriggling around the naming of the VIP is indicative of the censorious power of Thailand’s untouchable class. Unlike in India, these people are at the very top of the power structure, wallowing in obscene wealth. If they can unilaterally alter a constitution then getting away with the odd disappearance here or there must be a matter of a wave of the hand.
Indeed, I must thank you for the fine display of avoidance you have performed in this sub-thread. Implicating someone from this elite class would put you and/or your family in real danger and we don’t want to see that. It is though, a raw example of the force of terror in many Asian societies, thank you.
A response to the Thai government
Laoguy/Tuck. feeding on each others strong views leads to a black hole. To set the record straight Laoguy: I am not a “supporter” of Thaksin as you claim. I never even said I liked him (though I may have done if I actually knew him). But, unlike many dogmatic and self-opinionated colleagues, I assessed the evidence on the ground, read widely, rather than from a one-sided distorted amaat controlled media. Thaksin was in fact done badly leading up to the coup. He was sincere in working for ordinary Thais (ask peasant or working class Thais who mostly benefited from his policies [– well, maybe not right now though]). It is ludicrous to assert that he “disappeared people” as Laoguy claimed. He was a businessman not a thug, and highly effective if authoritative and unbending; a political leader who brought Thailand out of an entrenched period of international debt. And if you have open eyes regarding political events past decade or so it will be evident that the military-amaat-royalist propaganda (starting with Sondhi Lim’s lies and misinformation in 2005) was intent on bringing him down, precisely because he was so damn good at what he was doing at the time and esteemed by the masses. In this matter, he brushed against the monarchy regime. The consequence of which we see today in his permanent exile.
Justice by numbers
This article invites us to indulge in some deep anthropological speculation on the fascinating topic of vigilantism. Its origins are likely to be much more ancient than most other institutions. The most ancient form I can think of is punishment meted out to some individual for an egregious violation of the social order amongst a troop of chimpanzees. Low-order members join in the violence in the hope that their contribution will lead to social advancement. Institutionalised punitive control probably has its origins there, as do even the state and the justice system.
Race to the bottom
http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/refdaily?pass=52fc6fbd5&id=587722c63
“Sufayat Ullah (20), a madrassa student, said he was home with his family on the morning of the attack and the first thing he registered was the sound of gunfire. He realised quickly, he said, that he could survive only by escaping. “When they found people close by, they attacked them with machetes,” he said. “If they were far away, they shot them.””
Is something similar happening in Malaysia?