The root of the problem, as it everywhere in Burma, comes back down to absolute chauvinsitic, domineering/ bullying attitude of the Bamar Sit-tut since the time of Ne Win.
Instead of getting better as everyone is screaming hoarse, it is now hugely magnified as the current practitioners of this raicist, chauvinistic, yet at once cowardly, policy are pampered by self-serving your “western” business communities and their lackeys- the western “Democratic” begging-shamelessly-for-money-at-each-election governments and the international bodies who always sing the exact required tune every time the Americans put a dime in the slot.
It is totally unintended if one gets the impression that loss of life of one race is different to another. Bamar, Kachin, Karen, Rohingya, a life is a life. Any losss is regrettable. And equally.
The point of the article is total lack of any mention in any media at all of the effect of the loss of large number of lives. That’s all. It is concerning.
Are they (dead people) worthless? Is there a pool of worthless surplus lives around in Burma for gun (mine) fodder?
Where are the voice of their relatives and friends in and outside the forces? One does see the Kachin losses mourned and decried.
That makes the current vioceless/ unrepresented Burmese society unhealthy apart from the sheer loss.
It is not a fluke that the 3 warriors kings were chosen to be at the (horridly named) Naypyidaw as well as in Pyin U Lwin.
Anawretha, Bayinnaung and Alaunpaya are all unifier of Myanmar.
There is even a belief among the graduating cadets at Pyin U Lwin that if Maha Bandoola has not been killed the historic outcome might have been different.
Therefore creating generations of graduates that aspire to be Maha Bandoola. Explaining well the tenacity that will ensure a bitter end as in the Bamar vs Kayin tragedy.
Whether the blood shed is of a Bamar, Kachin or Kayin they are all brothers.
Suggesting otherwise will surely invite useless careless third party intervention that we have seen just recently.
Daw Aung San Suu Kyi portrayed Myanmar as Democracy vs dictatorship sans consideration to a citizenry well being.
Dubious HR organizations profiting from portrayal of Myanmar military regime as the worst HR violator while themselves advancing policy that permanently induce poverty especially of hope, an ultimate HR violation.
These are but a few examples that must be addressed in order to end the ever eventual quagmire of Bamar vs ??ethnic groups.
Present dangers facing Myanmar is more than the West’s policy induced SPDC survival strategy of:
1) Khin Nyunt cease fire agreement that are meant to be broken b/t Bamar and various ethnic groups.
2) but also the dangerous conditions in the Yakhine state due to neglect and poverty.
The level of violence is fast approaching a point of self propagation/no return.
With the availability of arms from the ongoing Middle East conflicts how long before a situation like Mali manifesting in western Myanmar?
This tittle might suggest and remind one of ongoing tragedy of brothers against brothers bloodshed.
Yet failure to mention any preceding conditions that prompted this continuum of events, a present quagmire, makes this article another obvious white washing of the useless careless third party’s sin.
Even for a casual westener the glaring truth about Bamar dominance through out history is undeniable.
Yet the past efforts of the third party since colonial time has been to diminish or change this reality .
Lest other forgotten the third party sin of ‘neglect’ followed by ‘unrelenting denigration’ knowing well (as in Cuba) that the resulting deprivation of over 6 decades will assure an intransigent Bamar regime that bend on survival at any cost.
Myanmar is a Buddhist nation. Unlike the majority of Christian Kachin, expecting outcry from the casualty is at best unprecedented and at the worst either a westerner fantasy or longing to return to the useless careless yesteryear policy by this New Mandala contributor.
War must always be an extension to a political solution.
Knowing the “Everything is a nail to a hammer” concept of any military regime, it is now imperative that a political solution be worked out by those/experts who use Wars as a last resort .
The question is where are these experts?
From Daw AUng San Suu Kyi, the great West’s hope, to UN an its litany of provocateurs (at least a dozen)that are so quick on condemning the HR violation.
Will they now come up with a lasting solutions to this enduring quagmire that they help created?
“This is something the American military may want to learn from their new best friends, Burmese military counterparts. A lesson in how to keep a tight lid on any repercussions from huge casualties. Intense and absolute repression: deception lesson 101.”
Or will they chime in with this contributor bemoaning the continuing bloodshed that seem to denigrate the a Bamar’s worth over a Kachin’s?
[…] widespread in Burmese society. Chat forums are filled with venomous attacks on the Muslim minority (some examples here), whom many Burmese claim are Bengali immigrants, with their dark skin often cited as proof that […]
[…] in contemporary Thailand, even the king’s remaining supporters tend to be mostly “Bhumibolists” – who respect him personally because of his perceived goodness, dedication and […]
Very interesting title of this thread “HRW fires a few grenades”, don’t you agree Nostitz? You are an evasive explosive grenade yourself Nostitz when pressed. And that explains, among other things, why I think HRW could NOT include Nick Nostitz as a reliable source in their report.
I look forward to reading this article. I have to ask, Andrew, do you do any comparison between the Thai handbooks and that venerable American institution, The Old Farmer’s Almanac, which also has the same combination of agricultural and astrological knowledge and advice? I’ve bought my yearly copy ever since I was a child.
KIA has declared their losses so far as at least 2,000 killed. Out of 2,000 deaths 220 were accidental deaths caused by premature explosion of KIA land mines.
KIA’s Burmese bodycount of 10,000 is unbelievably ridiculous as it was at least 2 Light infantry division of men with at least 350 commissioned officers.
AS the families of fallen commissioned officers are officially allowed to put up death notices of their love ones, that body count will cause massive death notices in the Newspapers.
I haven’t seen that happening for this Kachin War so far. But I’d seen it at the height of Kayin War in the late 1990s.
Maybe the KIA just multiplied their deaths by 5 to reach such a ridiculously high Burmese bodycount.
[…] some of the posts at New Mandala earlier today and noted a brief exchange on an old posting, with an intriguing recent comment from photojournalist Nick […]
[…] some of the posts at New Mandala earlier today and noted a brief exchange on an old posting, with an intriguing recent comment from photojournalist Nick […]
Fair enough. Economic growth is not necessarily a question of moving people on or off the farm, but merely giving them more opportunities and choices. This, I believe, is generally a good thing, but the dark side is that sometimes people, including both workers and factory owners, will either choose or be manipulated into “selling their souls,” so to speak, for greater profit. The profit motive certainly can be intoxicating and blind people to more important considerations in life.
In Southeast Asia today, my sense is that most people in most countries are voting with their feet for greater urbanization and industrialization. They are voluntarily choosing greater profits from factory work or urban service employment over whatever benefits they might receive from staying in rural and agricultural areas. In China, meanwhile, things appear to be heading in the opposite direction: the urban factory workforce is saturated, workers are demanding better conditions, and many are now returning to the countryside in search of a better life. Will Southeast Asia follow the same path as wages start to reach the same levels as that of China? Guess we will have to wait and see…
Aung Moe has hit the nail on the head. Big organisations like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International seek primarily to maximise their financial bottom lines by pressing their donors’ emotional buttons. The truth comes second, at best. Sorry Les.
As for the men in black, it seems pretty clear that they were an army faction led by the more violent of the officers whose careers had languished, either because they were too close to Thaksin, or because they didn’t crawl low enough to the royalists. Not all of the reds were smart enough to realise that this military faction was always going to be an embarrassment to them and their cause of elected civilian government.
It is absolutely true. There are, happy or not, large number of people who are employed for every mishap. And indeed technological innovation is required to have this gratifying conversation to start with.
It is more of an issue of total lack of parallel and compensatory humanistic value along with mass production the sole aim of which being profit.
Perhaps work at the farm has more than grains as output.
Another anecdote of a carpenter selling home made chair feeling devestated as the customer breaking a chair just bought off him opposed to Ford workers cheering on someone burning a car just produced and bought shows mental and emotional values of “work” apart from the grains and iPAD’s.
Unfortunately the innovation has not reached to the point of making workers belonged to and proud of their own achievements needing totally artificial medals and prizes which the happy carpenter would not care about.
Off the track now, the happiness surveys do show consistently the miserable state of people’s mind in the “rich” countries.
And if the mass production and capital movements and consumerism are the answer, how come the biggest liberal capitalist, the United States is the biggest in debt-16 trilions just now? Debts it has no ability or intention to pay back and is trying the damnest to hide that obvious fact as a run on the bank would certainly make the country collapse.
Perpetual requirement of irreversible environmental destruction and multitude of disposable “underclass” to service the production lines make the current system of “wealth” unsustainable.
This is off the track of creativity but opportune.
Impolite insinuations Nick Nostitz? I thought all my questions were direct to the point.
But you do get very evasive on very frequent occassions Nostitz and you had NOT answered the two direct questions I asked which I repeat: (1) Is there anything in the HRW account that you specifically agree, and more importantly, disagree with? HRW did portray the Red Shirt leaders as ‘provoking violence (and arson) during their bloody protests. But Nostitz insists that Tida and the Reds are a peaceful lot . . . really Nick?
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Kachin affair is a Bamar affair
Thanks for this long discourse Plan B.
The root of the problem, as it everywhere in Burma, comes back down to absolute chauvinsitic, domineering/ bullying attitude of the Bamar Sit-tut since the time of Ne Win.
Instead of getting better as everyone is screaming hoarse, it is now hugely magnified as the current practitioners of this raicist, chauvinistic, yet at once cowardly, policy are pampered by self-serving your “western” business communities and their lackeys- the western “Democratic” begging-shamelessly-for-money-at-each-election governments and the international bodies who always sing the exact required tune every time the Americans put a dime in the slot.
It is totally unintended if one gets the impression that loss of life of one race is different to another. Bamar, Kachin, Karen, Rohingya, a life is a life. Any losss is regrettable. And equally.
The point of the article is total lack of any mention in any media at all of the effect of the loss of large number of lives. That’s all. It is concerning.
Are they (dead people) worthless? Is there a pool of worthless surplus lives around in Burma for gun (mine) fodder?
Where are the voice of their relatives and friends in and outside the forces? One does see the Kachin losses mourned and decried.
That makes the current vioceless/ unrepresented Burmese society unhealthy apart from the sheer loss.
Kachin affair is a Bamar affair
It is not a fluke that the 3 warriors kings were chosen to be at the (horridly named) Naypyidaw as well as in Pyin U Lwin.
Anawretha, Bayinnaung and Alaunpaya are all unifier of Myanmar.
There is even a belief among the graduating cadets at Pyin U Lwin that if Maha Bandoola has not been killed the historic outcome might have been different.
Therefore creating generations of graduates that aspire to be Maha Bandoola. Explaining well the tenacity that will ensure a bitter end as in the Bamar vs Kayin tragedy.
Whether the blood shed is of a Bamar, Kachin or Kayin they are all brothers.
Suggesting otherwise will surely invite useless careless third party intervention that we have seen just recently.
Daw Aung San Suu Kyi portrayed Myanmar as Democracy vs dictatorship sans consideration to a citizenry well being.
Dubious HR organizations profiting from portrayal of Myanmar military regime as the worst HR violator while themselves advancing policy that permanently induce poverty especially of hope, an ultimate HR violation.
These are but a few examples that must be addressed in order to end the ever eventual quagmire of Bamar vs ??ethnic groups.
Present dangers facing Myanmar is more than the West’s policy induced SPDC survival strategy of:
1) Khin Nyunt cease fire agreement that are meant to be broken b/t Bamar and various ethnic groups.
2) but also the dangerous conditions in the Yakhine state due to neglect and poverty.
The level of violence is fast approaching a point of self propagation/no return.
With the availability of arms from the ongoing Middle East conflicts how long before a situation like Mali manifesting in western Myanmar?
Kachin affair is a Bamar affair
“The Kachin affair is a Bamar affair.”
This tittle might suggest and remind one of ongoing tragedy of brothers against brothers bloodshed.
Yet failure to mention any preceding conditions that prompted this continuum of events, a present quagmire, makes this article another obvious white washing of the useless careless third party’s sin.
Even for a casual westener the glaring truth about Bamar dominance through out history is undeniable.
Yet the past efforts of the third party since colonial time has been to diminish or change this reality .
Lest other forgotten the third party sin of ‘neglect’ followed by ‘unrelenting denigration’ knowing well (as in Cuba) that the resulting deprivation of over 6 decades will assure an intransigent Bamar regime that bend on survival at any cost.
Myanmar is a Buddhist nation. Unlike the majority of Christian Kachin, expecting outcry from the casualty is at best unprecedented and at the worst either a westerner fantasy or longing to return to the useless careless yesteryear policy by this New Mandala contributor.
War must always be an extension to a political solution.
Knowing the “Everything is a nail to a hammer” concept of any military regime, it is now imperative that a political solution be worked out by those/experts who use Wars as a last resort .
The question is where are these experts?
From Daw AUng San Suu Kyi, the great West’s hope, to UN an its litany of provocateurs (at least a dozen)that are so quick on condemning the HR violation.
Will they now come up with a lasting solutions to this enduring quagmire that they help created?
“This is something the American military may want to learn from their new best friends, Burmese military counterparts. A lesson in how to keep a tight lid on any repercussions from huge casualties. Intense and absolute repression: deception lesson 101.”
Or will they chime in with this contributor bemoaning the continuing bloodshed that seem to denigrate the a Bamar’s worth over a Kachin’s?
BBC under fire on Rohingyas
[…] widespread in Burmese society. Chat forums are filled with venomous attacks on the Muslim minority (some examples here), whom many Burmese claim are Bengali immigrants, with their dark skin often cited as proof that […]
The challenge of innovation in ASEAN
With the light of the Chinese behaviour, you may find this article interesting.
http://www.dictatorwatch.org/articles/monkeypaw.pdf
On Bhumibolists and Royalists
[…] in contemporary Thailand, even the king’s remaining supporters tend to be mostly “Bhumibolists” – who respect him personally because of his perceived goodness, dedication and […]
HRW fires a few grenades
Very interesting title of this thread “HRW fires a few grenades”, don’t you agree Nostitz? You are an evasive explosive grenade yourself Nostitz when pressed. And that explains, among other things, why I think HRW could NOT include Nick Nostitz as a reliable source in their report.
People’s Movement for a Just Society
A shame that these folks are agitating for policies that will have disastrous effects for their cause.
Some one needs to hurry up and translate some Hernando de Soto into Thai and soon!
Handbooks: practical and auspicious
I look forward to reading this article. I have to ask, Andrew, do you do any comparison between the Thai handbooks and that venerable American institution, The Old Farmer’s Almanac, which also has the same combination of agricultural and astrological knowledge and advice? I’ve bought my yearly copy ever since I was a child.
People’s Movement for a Just Society
Interesting read. More and more of the Thai peoples are increasingly aware of their rights and inequalities which ever exit in the Thai’s society.
Marks of a good Malaysian leader
[…] Marks of a good Malaysian leader (asiapacific.anu.edu.au) […]
Kachin affair is a Bamar affair
A correction is in order.
It appears no soldier was dead enough to be put in officially allowed death notices in the newspapers in the last one and a half years. Apologies!
Kachin affair is a Bamar affair
KIA has declared their losses so far as at least 2,000 killed. Out of 2,000 deaths 220 were accidental deaths caused by premature explosion of KIA land mines.
KIA’s Burmese bodycount of 10,000 is unbelievably ridiculous as it was at least 2 Light infantry division of men with at least 350 commissioned officers.
AS the families of fallen commissioned officers are officially allowed to put up death notices of their love ones, that body count will cause massive death notices in the Newspapers.
I haven’t seen that happening for this Kachin War so far. But I’d seen it at the height of Kayin War in the late 1990s.
Maybe the KIA just multiplied their deaths by 5 to reach such a ridiculously high Burmese bodycount.
HRW fires a few grenades
[…] some of the posts at New Mandala earlier today and noted a brief exchange on an old posting, with an intriguing recent comment from photojournalist Nick […]
HRW fires a few grenades
[…] some of the posts at New Mandala earlier today and noted a brief exchange on an old posting, with an intriguing recent comment from photojournalist Nick […]
HRW fires a few grenades
What is so difficult to understand when i say: “I won’t go presently any deeper into this”?!
When *I* am ready you can read what what i have to say about 2010, and which points i insist upon.
Stop pestering me.
The challenge of innovation in ASEAN
Fair enough. Economic growth is not necessarily a question of moving people on or off the farm, but merely giving them more opportunities and choices. This, I believe, is generally a good thing, but the dark side is that sometimes people, including both workers and factory owners, will either choose or be manipulated into “selling their souls,” so to speak, for greater profit. The profit motive certainly can be intoxicating and blind people to more important considerations in life.
In Southeast Asia today, my sense is that most people in most countries are voting with their feet for greater urbanization and industrialization. They are voluntarily choosing greater profits from factory work or urban service employment over whatever benefits they might receive from staying in rural and agricultural areas. In China, meanwhile, things appear to be heading in the opposite direction: the urban factory workforce is saturated, workers are demanding better conditions, and many are now returning to the countryside in search of a better life. Will Southeast Asia follow the same path as wages start to reach the same levels as that of China? Guess we will have to wait and see…
HRW fires a few grenades
Aung Moe has hit the nail on the head. Big organisations like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International seek primarily to maximise their financial bottom lines by pressing their donors’ emotional buttons. The truth comes second, at best. Sorry Les.
As for the men in black, it seems pretty clear that they were an army faction led by the more violent of the officers whose careers had languished, either because they were too close to Thaksin, or because they didn’t crawl low enough to the royalists. Not all of the reds were smart enough to realise that this military faction was always going to be an embarrassment to them and their cause of elected civilian government.
The challenge of innovation in ASEAN
It is absolutely true. There are, happy or not, large number of people who are employed for every mishap. And indeed technological innovation is required to have this gratifying conversation to start with.
It is more of an issue of total lack of parallel and compensatory humanistic value along with mass production the sole aim of which being profit.
Perhaps work at the farm has more than grains as output.
Another anecdote of a carpenter selling home made chair feeling devestated as the customer breaking a chair just bought off him opposed to Ford workers cheering on someone burning a car just produced and bought shows mental and emotional values of “work” apart from the grains and iPAD’s.
Unfortunately the innovation has not reached to the point of making workers belonged to and proud of their own achievements needing totally artificial medals and prizes which the happy carpenter would not care about.
Off the track now, the happiness surveys do show consistently the miserable state of people’s mind in the “rich” countries.
And if the mass production and capital movements and consumerism are the answer, how come the biggest liberal capitalist, the United States is the biggest in debt-16 trilions just now? Debts it has no ability or intention to pay back and is trying the damnest to hide that obvious fact as a run on the bank would certainly make the country collapse.
Perpetual requirement of irreversible environmental destruction and multitude of disposable “underclass” to service the production lines make the current system of “wealth” unsustainable.
This is off the track of creativity but opportune.
HRW fires a few grenades
Impolite insinuations Nick Nostitz? I thought all my questions were direct to the point.
But you do get very evasive on very frequent occassions Nostitz and you had NOT answered the two direct questions I asked which I repeat: (1) Is there anything in the HRW account that you specifically agree, and more importantly, disagree with? HRW did portray the Red Shirt leaders as ‘provoking violence (and arson) during their bloody protests. But Nostitz insists that Tida and the Reds are a peaceful lot . . . really Nick?