You make a valid point. Public = Thai | Private = Sino/Thai. However, I would bring your attention to a wonderful article by the sadly ‘late’ Benedict Anderson: https://newleftreview.org/II/97/benedict-anderson-riddles-of-yellow-and-red
that demonstrates quite clearly that these easy ethnic divisions aren’t as clear cut as they might seem.
Re-reading this article (in early 20160, and specifically your comments, after all this time. One is can’t but be reminded of the saying “everything changes, but everything remains the same”.
My take on the army, for what it’s worth (I’m a graduate in Peace Studies, from that [not so] august intellectual powerhouse, the University of Bradford and more perhaps pertinently, currently a tutor of a military cadet), is that the South is a complete quagmire, best avoided by those (officers) who see themselves as potential flag officers of the future.
I think the crisis of professionalism in the RTA is profound and whilst many (especially foreign) commentators genuflect on the (all too obvious) everyday failings of the RTP, the bedrock of any nation sate is the capacity of it’s armed forces to secure it’s borders and territorial integrity. This fundamental task is, I strongly suspect, now beyond the ken, or for that matter ambition of the the majority of the aforementioned next generation. They’re simply looking for a scholarship out of the place.
Thai classrooms are enormous – any number up to 60 in a classroom, until they thin out at 15 year old cut-off of compulsory education. These huge classes are challenging for any teacher to control. We have to get away from the picture of Thai students as automated, disciplined, obedient robots. Reality is far different. They’re often a rowdy lot. Quite a problem for militarists trying to impose “discipline”.
I do not have the financial means to do as you suggest. And my son did not “cower” as you suggest! He was bullied constantly by older students, and fought back, and was punished and beaten by the teachers. His mother, my wife did nothing, she was AFRAID TO GO AGAINST THE ESTABLISHMENT TEACHERS, and was constantly restraining me against going t give the teachers some of their own medicine. She was born in 19563, sand our son was born in Fang Chiang Mai in 2001. Those dates are to give some relevance to things. We were in Oregon, USA from 2002 till 2007 to get my Veterans pension, and my wife’s citizenship. You speak of your roots. My father was descended from a Knight of Scotland, Knighted by King Robert the Bruce, and my mother was descended from Patrick Henry, who signed the declaration of Independence of the US, and the US Constitution. My son used to come home with welts on his back from whippings from his teachers.. Don’t keep going with this, or I will tell you more. You want more, my Facebook, Line, and Skype ids are the same, have the intestinal fortitude(guts) to talk to me in person, or SHUT UP!!! This is a very emotional subject for me and mine. I speak from personal experience, not academic observations from the big city, from a wealthy perspective.
Sorry, forgot to finish the first paragraph. It would otherwise sound very weird.
—
Responding to the article as an interested layman, . I don’t blame the author for getting irritated, seeing how many initial “critics” have tried to refute the author by using the same out-dated translations, finishing their refutations with some snarky comment.
Friends, you have missed the point entirely, and if I were in the same position as the author, I would have been very annoyed if I were seeking rigorous critique and contribution to my thesis.
Responding to the article as an interested layman, . I don’t blame the author for getting irritated, seeing how many “critics” have tried to refute the author.
As to the claims of the author… it doesn’t matter if it would cast errors into a hundred years of Western scholarship… THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT. An odd mistranslation becoming canon will lead to major comprehension problems, and if hatha yoga and Buddhist traditions are based off of the same Pali translations, then good luck verifying the meaning of mutual terms by cross-referencing the two traditions!
It doesn’t matter if the author cannot provide an alternative translation. That requires a significant amount of cultural research, cross-referencing, and historical research. To be honest, it would require the author to possibly develop a new school of Buddhist interpretation, which would be an ambitious undertaking to say the least. Maybe he doesn’t want to make the arrogant claim that he understands the entire field of Buddhist better than everyone else.
However, he recognizes that some crucial Pali translations have been bungled, and maybe it’s time that Buddhist scholars in the West begin to perform a more rigorous exegesis before they do lasting harm to the tradition. And it’s infuriating, frankly, to see most people miss the point entirely: we should be skeptical of the current definitions and be working towards better ones, even if we do not have an authoritative alternative present. Why willingly build on an unstable foundation?
I didn’t see where he said schooling was wasted. I did see hi say that time was wasted. For what it is, the time spent acquiring a Thai education is an exercise in time wasting.
It’s like paying twice the going rate for a car of value half the going rate.
Speak to any Thai who has been ‘studying’ English at school and see why the rich folk in Thailand want their kids educated somewhere else.
“Michael Wilson” , if you are such a “radical” or “liberal” – you seem confused, what is it – supporter of LGBT rights, why do you feel compelled to write a critical commentary under every article about LGBT in Indonesia which gets published by New Mandala?
I don’t believe you one word. I don’t even believe you are a liberal Canadian. No liberal Westerner I know would say that it’s okay to outlaw homosexuality, if the majority of people in, e.g., Indonesia, after years of religious-political brainwashing thinks, one should outlaw homosexuality. Yet that’s exactly what you suggested in your commentary below another article by Hendri Yulius. A democracy without the rule of law and the protection of minority rights, e.g. LGBT rights in Indonesia, or the protection of religious rights of Muslims in the West to be able to follow their religion in a non-radical way , is not a democracy but mob rule.
Of course you would know all that if you would really be a liberal, pardon me, radical Westerner. You are not. So all I can say is: Some people are gay, “Wilson”. Get over it. And spare us your pseudo-multicultural philosophy. Nobody here is interested in your propaganda
Liz Alden Wily, International land tenure specialist says:
Excellent article, and excellent news to build it upon! And congratulations to AMAN for its hard work. A question: you hint that Indonesian communities who do not define themselves as indigenous peoples/traditional societies may not be able to secure shared forest lands as collective property. Is this the case? Is there no provision in forest law for any village or community to bring forest resources shared by members under protection in order to qualify as owner-conservators? Does the new village law not provide for collectively owned and governed areas within the boundaries of villages?
Wasted…come on no schooling is wasted! It is not just about science or social studies. And yes, home schooling works in some circumstances but perhaps one of the few advantages of attending any school, no matter where in the world, is generally the social interaction it offers kids that attend school. However, as someone that “wasted” quite a lot of time in schools I think you should look at a range of “academic/educational” outcomes in a range of different countries. Personally I don’t think the American public school system is that great but my extant point would be is your son “cowered” as the original article tends to imply most students in Thailand are? I think the original article to use a bit of academic BS “dis-empowers” all or most school age students and renders them as “mindless robots” in Thailand and this is an oversimplification.
Not sure what stating you live upcountry should imply but at least you have the “moral courage” to identify yourself. I suppose my suggestion would be that if the American system is so great you owe your son the right to study in the “American system”
There is no doubt the main function of the Thai education system is to nurture the slavish and authoritarian instincts of the the population, and direct them towards the maintenance of the royalist/military hierarchy. The good news about the incipient liberation of the Thai people from feudalism is that the education system’s success rate in this function has not been high enough for the royalist-militarist political party to win an election for a couple of decades now. The bad news is that the alternative parties tend to be centred around patrons rather than policies: they have a tendency to be little more than alternative feudal régimes.
My Son has wasted 10.5 years in Thai schools, private schools considered to be “better” than govt schools. After those years of being verbally and physically abused he couldn’t take it anymore. He is a bright young man, who spent 2.5 years in American pre school and kindergarten in the public school system. I recently had him tested in the American system, and his English was at grade 5, math at grade 6, science(which is mostly due to his watching many online videos on his own) was at the same level, his history and social studies education was nonexistent, So he is now being home-schooled, non-traditionally.
So please pardon me for vehemently disagreeing with you. I also live upcountry.
I once taught in a Thai school, where ALL male students were military cadets. They loved computers, the Internet, and democracy. One day, they will stage their pro-democracy coup. Of that, I have no doubt.
Hardline Buddhist Monks Stop Prophet Muhammad’s Birthday Celebration in Prome
The Irrawaddy counted eight vehicles—including a light truck carrying Buddhist monks and bearing the Buddhist religious flag—being parked in front of the mosque in Si Taw Mingalar Ward on Sunday. Group members refused to answer questions about why they were stopping the Muslim religious event.
Michael – do you honestly believe, in a democracy, or even a country seeking to become one : there would be a “bail hearing” SIX YEARS after the alleged crime ?
As a father of two school-aged children in Thailand I don’t think their lives are quite as grim as depicted in this article. Sure there are tanks and guns and bombs and “Men on Horseback” (with apologies to Finer) or rather in motorized vehicles that are more salubrious than riding horseback and the Thai education system is not fantastic (although to be objective literacy rates are considerably higher than in neighboring Lao PDR or Cambodia or in countries such as Bangladesh, India or Pakistan) but both my children are more “critical thinkers” than I was at their age and my formative influences were a melange of Irish Republicanism, Trotskyite Internationalism and Papal Encyclicals. And I am not an apologist for regimes (learned that from “pretending” the Khmer Rouge post April 1975 was worth depending) but one needs a more nuanced approach than reflected in this article.
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“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
You make a valid point. Public = Thai | Private = Sino/Thai. However, I would bring your attention to a wonderful article by the sadly ‘late’ Benedict Anderson: https://newleftreview.org/II/97/benedict-anderson-riddles-of-yellow-and-red
that demonstrates quite clearly that these easy ethnic divisions aren’t as clear cut as they might seem.
“The deep political crisis within the Royal Thai Army officer corps”
Re-reading this article (in early 20160, and specifically your comments, after all this time. One is can’t but be reminded of the saying “everything changes, but everything remains the same”.
My take on the army, for what it’s worth (I’m a graduate in Peace Studies, from that [not so] august intellectual powerhouse, the University of Bradford and more perhaps pertinently, currently a tutor of a military cadet), is that the South is a complete quagmire, best avoided by those (officers) who see themselves as potential flag officers of the future.
I think the crisis of professionalism in the RTA is profound and whilst many (especially foreign) commentators genuflect on the (all too obvious) everyday failings of the RTP, the bedrock of any nation sate is the capacity of it’s armed forces to secure it’s borders and territorial integrity. This fundamental task is, I strongly suspect, now beyond the ken, or for that matter ambition of the the majority of the aforementioned next generation. They’re simply looking for a scholarship out of the place.
Old men and the abuse of Thai youth
I agree, totally with your first sentence. The rest I cannot in print, I live here.
Old men and the abuse of Thai youth
Thai classrooms are enormous – any number up to 60 in a classroom, until they thin out at 15 year old cut-off of compulsory education. These huge classes are challenging for any teacher to control. We have to get away from the picture of Thai students as automated, disciplined, obedient robots. Reality is far different. They’re often a rowdy lot. Quite a problem for militarists trying to impose “discipline”.
Old men and the abuse of Thai youth
I do not have the financial means to do as you suggest. And my son did not “cower” as you suggest! He was bullied constantly by older students, and fought back, and was punished and beaten by the teachers. His mother, my wife did nothing, she was AFRAID TO GO AGAINST THE ESTABLISHMENT TEACHERS, and was constantly restraining me against going t give the teachers some of their own medicine. She was born in 19563, sand our son was born in Fang Chiang Mai in 2001. Those dates are to give some relevance to things. We were in Oregon, USA from 2002 till 2007 to get my Veterans pension, and my wife’s citizenship. You speak of your roots. My father was descended from a Knight of Scotland, Knighted by King Robert the Bruce, and my mother was descended from Patrick Henry, who signed the declaration of Independence of the US, and the US Constitution. My son used to come home with welts on his back from whippings from his teachers.. Don’t keep going with this, or I will tell you more. You want more, my Facebook, Line, and Skype ids are the same, have the intestinal fortitude(guts) to talk to me in person, or SHUT UP!!! This is a very emotional subject for me and mine. I speak from personal experience, not academic observations from the big city, from a wealthy perspective.
Flatulence and breathing meditation
Sorry, forgot to finish the first paragraph. It would otherwise sound very weird.
—
Responding to the article as an interested layman, . I don’t blame the author for getting irritated, seeing how many initial “critics” have tried to refute the author by using the same out-dated translations, finishing their refutations with some snarky comment.
Friends, you have missed the point entirely, and if I were in the same position as the author, I would have been very annoyed if I were seeking rigorous critique and contribution to my thesis.
—
Flatulence and breathing meditation
Responding to the article as an interested layman, . I don’t blame the author for getting irritated, seeing how many “critics” have tried to refute the author.
As to the claims of the author… it doesn’t matter if it would cast errors into a hundred years of Western scholarship… THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT. An odd mistranslation becoming canon will lead to major comprehension problems, and if hatha yoga and Buddhist traditions are based off of the same Pali translations, then good luck verifying the meaning of mutual terms by cross-referencing the two traditions!
It doesn’t matter if the author cannot provide an alternative translation. That requires a significant amount of cultural research, cross-referencing, and historical research. To be honest, it would require the author to possibly develop a new school of Buddhist interpretation, which would be an ambitious undertaking to say the least. Maybe he doesn’t want to make the arrogant claim that he understands the entire field of Buddhist better than everyone else.
However, he recognizes that some crucial Pali translations have been bungled, and maybe it’s time that Buddhist scholars in the West begin to perform a more rigorous exegesis before they do lasting harm to the tradition. And it’s infuriating, frankly, to see most people miss the point entirely: we should be skeptical of the current definitions and be working towards better ones, even if we do not have an authoritative alternative present. Why willingly build on an unstable foundation?
Old men and the abuse of Thai youth
I didn’t see where he said schooling was wasted. I did see hi say that time was wasted. For what it is, the time spent acquiring a Thai education is an exercise in time wasting.
It’s like paying twice the going rate for a car of value half the going rate.
Speak to any Thai who has been ‘studying’ English at school and see why the rich folk in Thailand want their kids educated somewhere else.
Indonesia and ‘transparent sex’
“Michael Wilson” , if you are such a “radical” or “liberal” – you seem confused, what is it – supporter of LGBT rights, why do you feel compelled to write a critical commentary under every article about LGBT in Indonesia which gets published by New Mandala?
I don’t believe you one word. I don’t even believe you are a liberal Canadian. No liberal Westerner I know would say that it’s okay to outlaw homosexuality, if the majority of people in, e.g., Indonesia, after years of religious-political brainwashing thinks, one should outlaw homosexuality. Yet that’s exactly what you suggested in your commentary below another article by Hendri Yulius. A democracy without the rule of law and the protection of minority rights, e.g. LGBT rights in Indonesia, or the protection of religious rights of Muslims in the West to be able to follow their religion in a non-radical way , is not a democracy but mob rule.
Of course you would know all that if you would really be a liberal, pardon me, radical Westerner. You are not. So all I can say is: Some people are gay, “Wilson”. Get over it. And spare us your pseudo-multicultural philosophy. Nobody here is interested in your propaganda
A new leaf for land rights?
Excellent article, and excellent news to build it upon! And congratulations to AMAN for its hard work. A question: you hint that Indonesian communities who do not define themselves as indigenous peoples/traditional societies may not be able to secure shared forest lands as collective property. Is this the case? Is there no provision in forest law for any village or community to bring forest resources shared by members under protection in order to qualify as owner-conservators? Does the new village law not provide for collectively owned and governed areas within the boundaries of villages?
Old men and the abuse of Thai youth
Wasted…come on no schooling is wasted! It is not just about science or social studies. And yes, home schooling works in some circumstances but perhaps one of the few advantages of attending any school, no matter where in the world, is generally the social interaction it offers kids that attend school. However, as someone that “wasted” quite a lot of time in schools I think you should look at a range of “academic/educational” outcomes in a range of different countries. Personally I don’t think the American public school system is that great but my extant point would be is your son “cowered” as the original article tends to imply most students in Thailand are? I think the original article to use a bit of academic BS “dis-empowers” all or most school age students and renders them as “mindless robots” in Thailand and this is an oversimplification.
Not sure what stating you live upcountry should imply but at least you have the “moral courage” to identify yourself. I suppose my suggestion would be that if the American system is so great you owe your son the right to study in the “American system”
Old men and the abuse of Thai youth
I was wrong, I didn’t realize I was using THAT at the time.
Old men and the abuse of Thai youth
There is no doubt the main function of the Thai education system is to nurture the slavish and authoritarian instincts of the the population, and direct them towards the maintenance of the royalist/military hierarchy. The good news about the incipient liberation of the Thai people from feudalism is that the education system’s success rate in this function has not been high enough for the royalist-militarist political party to win an election for a couple of decades now. The bad news is that the alternative parties tend to be centred around patrons rather than policies: they have a tendency to be little more than alternative feudal régimes.
Old men and the abuse of Thai youth
My Son has wasted 10.5 years in Thai schools, private schools considered to be “better” than govt schools. After those years of being verbally and physically abused he couldn’t take it anymore. He is a bright young man, who spent 2.5 years in American pre school and kindergarten in the public school system. I recently had him tested in the American system, and his English was at grade 5, math at grade 6, science(which is mostly due to his watching many online videos on his own) was at the same level, his history and social studies education was nonexistent, So he is now being home-schooled, non-traditionally.
So please pardon me for vehemently disagreeing with you. I also live upcountry.
Old men and the abuse of Thai youth
I accessed it just fine.
Old men and the abuse of Thai youth
Two dislikes…afraid to identify themselves but never mind. It is always easy to be anonymous: a form of moral cowardice me thinks!
Old men and the abuse of Thai youth
I once taught in a Thai school, where ALL male students were military cadets. They loved computers, the Internet, and democracy. One day, they will stage their pro-democracy coup. Of that, I have no doubt.
Is Ma Ba Tha really in decline?
Hardline Buddhist Monks Stop Prophet Muhammad’s Birthday Celebration in Prome
The Irrawaddy counted eight vehicles—including a light truck carrying Buddhist monks and bearing the Buddhist religious flag—being parked in front of the mosque in Si Taw Mingalar Ward on Sunday. Group members refused to answer questions about why they were stopping the Muslim religious event.
http://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/hardline-buddhist-monks-stop-prophet-muhammads-birthday-celebration-prome.html
A response to the Thai government
Michael – do you honestly believe, in a democracy, or even a country seeking to become one : there would be a “bail hearing” SIX YEARS after the alleged crime ?
Old men and the abuse of Thai youth
As a father of two school-aged children in Thailand I don’t think their lives are quite as grim as depicted in this article. Sure there are tanks and guns and bombs and “Men on Horseback” (with apologies to Finer) or rather in motorized vehicles that are more salubrious than riding horseback and the Thai education system is not fantastic (although to be objective literacy rates are considerably higher than in neighboring Lao PDR or Cambodia or in countries such as Bangladesh, India or Pakistan) but both my children are more “critical thinkers” than I was at their age and my formative influences were a melange of Irish Republicanism, Trotskyite Internationalism and Papal Encyclicals. And I am not an apologist for regimes (learned that from “pretending” the Khmer Rouge post April 1975 was worth depending) but one needs a more nuanced approach than reflected in this article.