On the one hand, you are spot-on. The ability of the speaker to speak English well, according to (some) listeners gives the speaker social superiority, which is the mark of a the listener’s colonised mind.
Plus, it fall into the realm of tragic-comic when English speaking expats and journalists think a person could almost (but not quite) be one of their own (shared values – whatever those may be!) just because his or her mastery of the language. A wise expat would learn the local lingo and the standardised national language should they too want to be accepted by the locals, although most don’t see the point.
On the other hand, the locals too have taken ownership of the English language and added local flavour to it, hence, Manglish and Singlish. (I don’t know the Thai-equivalent.) If I were to speak as I do in my daily life, whenever I was in Malaysia, I get accused of showing off, of “putting an accent”, so I have to resort to Manglish. Having an English ‘accent’ in some parts of Scotland is not the done thing either; better sound a bit foreign.
So, don’t blame the English. Their language is no longer their own, for a long time now.
“…The President eventually attended the 2 December 2016 rally, despite repeatedly vowing to resist mob pressure… The national police chief also vacillated…”
The President’s and National Police Chief’s moves do not signify submission to the vigilantes’ pressure. In fact, many among us, who are against this specific vigilante group, consider these moves as strategically smart, fire does not always have to be fought with fire. The situation is really complex and there were subtle moves carried out to weaken the Islamic Defender’s Front. It is true that minority groups in Indonesia have always been feeling unsafe due to the acts of the intolerants and violent occurrences in the past, but it seems like we can put a bit of hope in this administration. I fully support our President and National Police Chief.
In Thailand, conservative anti-democrats ridiculed Yingluck for her English and liberals of all stripes ridicule Chan-ocha for his refusal to use it.
Posters on this website who speak not a word of Thai beyond “yes I hansum man, how muchee?” label all Thais stupid and fail to see the irony in unilingual halfwits using English competence, especially when their own is abominable, as a measure of intelligence.
Spoken Thai, like British English, is heavily freighted with class markers that those who wield them would like the world to equate with intelligence and/or education.
Even more ridiculous, Brit journalists and other Brit expats often expressed disappointment that Abhisit turned out not to be the saviour of Thai democracy because his English was good and he studied at Oxford, thus creating very high expectations of his political and ethical character.
The few Malaysians I have met here in Bangkok have each and every one been possessed of a British-sounding accent and a bearing of infinite superiority to match.
Thank you for this piece. I am a non-resident Malaysian and I am more comfortable conversing in English now than I do in standard Malay; although, my Northen dialect would not be out of place there. So, when conversing in Bahasa Malaysia, I would appear to be that simple country cousin (orang kampung) from the north. However, when I switch to English the reactions I received have been interesting: from being brushed off by the clerks at KL general hospital probably because they thought I was showing off, to a taxi driver who insisted that I must be a ‘Eurasian’ because I took a telephone call from the UK and conversed in English during the ride.
There are 400,000 unemployed graduates in malaysia – govt stats.
However, the Govt does not break this down into racial categories. This is one of the few things that the Govt does not treat with “racial lens”
I would hazard a guess that over 95% of those are Bumi graduates. When one talks about the low quality of graduates in Malaysia, one must (no choice – just reality) one must group them according to racial mix. The Govt insistence in lowering the standards to allow for students to go into higher learning inst, is damaging. A lot of these so called graduates would have been better served in trade schools learning some useful skill sets. Graduate unemployment would drop precipitously.
Unlike Christianity and Hinduism Islam is and will be oil to water with Buddhism.
There is no conversion to Islam because of the inherent chauvinism. Even the willing converts are treated as 2nd class Muslim! Just ask an Indonesian Muslims.
Until there is a reformation to this anathema for which one can be stoned for even thinking, the Kala in Yakhine plight will not change ,for the better.
Hi
I have not experienced language shaming in English and Malay. I speak both reasonably well. It is often a source of pride when I travel, that people remark I speak good English. To this I remark, thank God for the British!
Had they not invaded Malaysia, we would not have an education system in place!
I did experienced language shaming as a Chinese banana in a national school.
I learnt it on my own and the Chinese in mainland China now quite happily could understand my Mandarin in our daily conference calls. I become interpreter when the Japanese and Germans in the call cannot understand the mainland Chinese, and vice versa. Sure I sound funny when I get stuck, but no one said I did not add value
I work as a programmer manager in the IT sector, and I enjoy learning languages immensely. The only way to learn, as my Dad once told me, was to open your mouth and don’t be scared to make a fool of yourself!
Thank you for the interesting article. I agree with your points although speaking as a Malay Malaysia, I wonder to what extent does language shaming in the case of BM occur for non-Malays? I’ve seen and experienced language shaming of Malays who can’t speak BM well by other Malays but I never imagined non-Malays would be tutted for it as often.
Also, I’m curious if language shaming also happens within Chinese families when it comes to speaking Mandarin vs. ancestral language in schools and with family.
One in Three Rohingya Women Refugees Say They Were Raped
A correspondent for BenarNews, an RFA-affiliated online news service, who spent four days visiting the camps in southeastern Cox’s Bazar district, reported that 17 of the 54 Rohingya women she interviewed said they were raped while Myanmar’s military launched a brutal crackdown in northern Rakhine state after nine police officers were attacked and killed by an armed Rohingya insurgent group in October.
I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss it, Peter. Like Zipf’s Law, the more you dig into it, the more fascinating it becomes.
Some more examples for the list: Dr. Patrick Ho Chi-ping, former Secretary for Home Affairs for Hong Kong; Dr. Friedrich Akel, Head of State of Estonia; Dr. Emilio Álvarez Montalván, Nicaraguan Foreign Minister; Dr. Vivian Balakrishnan, Singaporean Minister of Foreign Affairs; Dr. Nila Moeloek, former Indonesian Minister of Health, and Dr. Ċensu Tabone, former President of Malta.
Another important factor is the large number of temporary migrants living in Singapore. Mainly Indonesian and Filipino they are at the bottom of the heap
In sum, eye doctors have become politicians before, and having read this headline, one might have thought that, counterintuitively, that profession perhaps left a common set of traits on its political practitioners.
Then, stuff about Thailand strung together with stuff about Rand Paul– who is courageous when agreeing with the author’s political preferences but “goose-stepping” when not–and something about Rizal and Assad.
This revelation is only surprising when you compare it to the behaviour expected from police and law enforcement agencies in the first world.
Everyone else recognises this is fairly typical behaviour from Thais, disappointing though it is. Thais do not understand why the world does not accept their superiority. This is one of the reasons.
But then after 60-odd years of being ripped off and propagandised, it’s reasonable to ask what else one could expect. The delusions of budgies that think they’re eagles are safe enough while they stay in their cage.
The Thai police have intimidated the family of the wife of a former Bangkok-based British journalist wanted for lèse majesté.
At 3 pm on 18 January 2017, Ruedeewan Lahthip, the mother-in-law of Andrew MacGregor Marshall, a British journalist accused of lèse majesté, told BBC Thai that two policewomen in plainclothes visited her house to look for her daughter, Noppawan “Ploy” Bunluesilp, 39.
As Noppawan was not at home, the policewoman told Ruedeewan that their superior would like Marshall not to post information deemed defamatory to the Thai Monarchy online again.
“They were polite and said “please tell Andrew that [if he likes or does not like certain things] he should keep this to himself and not post [certain] images, so his child can come back to Thailand with no worries,” Ruedeewan told the BBC Thai.
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Patiwat on Sarit and Sonthi
CIA documents released and accessible
Thailand’s 29 year old King Phumiphon evidently played an active role in the events leading to and subsequent to the army coup .
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP79-00927A001400080001-9.pdf
Wisdom of General Prayuth
Thai could supersede English as the dominant world language – at least in the opinion of junta chairman Prayuth Chan-ocha.
http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2017/01/12/rao-tum-dai-thai-could-be-world-new-english-prayuth-says/
Language shaming in Malaysia
Interesting analysis Mr Wilson!
On the one hand, you are spot-on. The ability of the speaker to speak English well, according to (some) listeners gives the speaker social superiority, which is the mark of a the listener’s colonised mind.
Plus, it fall into the realm of tragic-comic when English speaking expats and journalists think a person could almost (but not quite) be one of their own (shared values – whatever those may be!) just because his or her mastery of the language. A wise expat would learn the local lingo and the standardised national language should they too want to be accepted by the locals, although most don’t see the point.
On the other hand, the locals too have taken ownership of the English language and added local flavour to it, hence, Manglish and Singlish. (I don’t know the Thai-equivalent.) If I were to speak as I do in my daily life, whenever I was in Malaysia, I get accused of showing off, of “putting an accent”, so I have to resort to Manglish. Having an English ‘accent’ in some parts of Scotland is not the done thing either; better sound a bit foreign.
So, don’t blame the English. Their language is no longer their own, for a long time now.
Justice by numbers
“…The President eventually attended the 2 December 2016 rally, despite repeatedly vowing to resist mob pressure… The national police chief also vacillated…”
The President’s and National Police Chief’s moves do not signify submission to the vigilantes’ pressure. In fact, many among us, who are against this specific vigilante group, consider these moves as strategically smart, fire does not always have to be fought with fire. The situation is really complex and there were subtle moves carried out to weaken the Islamic Defender’s Front. It is true that minority groups in Indonesia have always been feeling unsafe due to the acts of the intolerants and violent occurrences in the past, but it seems like we can put a bit of hope in this administration. I fully support our President and National Police Chief.
Language shaming in Malaysia
In Thailand, conservative anti-democrats ridiculed Yingluck for her English and liberals of all stripes ridicule Chan-ocha for his refusal to use it.
Posters on this website who speak not a word of Thai beyond “yes I hansum man, how muchee?” label all Thais stupid and fail to see the irony in unilingual halfwits using English competence, especially when their own is abominable, as a measure of intelligence.
Spoken Thai, like British English, is heavily freighted with class markers that those who wield them would like the world to equate with intelligence and/or education.
Even more ridiculous, Brit journalists and other Brit expats often expressed disappointment that Abhisit turned out not to be the saviour of Thai democracy because his English was good and he studied at Oxford, thus creating very high expectations of his political and ethical character.
The few Malaysians I have met here in Bangkok have each and every one been possessed of a British-sounding accent and a bearing of infinite superiority to match.
So I blame the English.
Language shaming in Malaysia
Thank you for this piece. I am a non-resident Malaysian and I am more comfortable conversing in English now than I do in standard Malay; although, my Northen dialect would not be out of place there. So, when conversing in Bahasa Malaysia, I would appear to be that simple country cousin (orang kampung) from the north. However, when I switch to English the reactions I received have been interesting: from being brushed off by the clerks at KL general hospital probably because they thought I was showing off, to a taxi driver who insisted that I must be a ‘Eurasian’ because I took a telephone call from the UK and conversed in English during the ride.
Academia absentia?
There are 400,000 unemployed graduates in malaysia – govt stats.
However, the Govt does not break this down into racial categories. This is one of the few things that the Govt does not treat with “racial lens”
I would hazard a guess that over 95% of those are Bumi graduates. When one talks about the low quality of graduates in Malaysia, one must (no choice – just reality) one must group them according to racial mix. The Govt insistence in lowering the standards to allow for students to go into higher learning inst, is damaging. A lot of these so called graduates would have been better served in trade schools learning some useful skill sets. Graduate unemployment would drop precipitously.
Is Ma Ba Tha really in decline?
Unlike Christianity and Hinduism Islam is and will be oil to water with Buddhism.
There is no conversion to Islam because of the inherent chauvinism. Even the willing converts are treated as 2nd class Muslim! Just ask an Indonesian Muslims.
Until there is a reformation to this anathema for which one can be stoned for even thinking, the Kala in Yakhine plight will not change ,for the better.
Language shaming in Malaysia
Hi
I have not experienced language shaming in English and Malay. I speak both reasonably well. It is often a source of pride when I travel, that people remark I speak good English. To this I remark, thank God for the British!
Had they not invaded Malaysia, we would not have an education system in place!
I did experienced language shaming as a Chinese banana in a national school.
I learnt it on my own and the Chinese in mainland China now quite happily could understand my Mandarin in our daily conference calls. I become interpreter when the Japanese and Germans in the call cannot understand the mainland Chinese, and vice versa. Sure I sound funny when I get stuck, but no one said I did not add value
I work as a programmer manager in the IT sector, and I enjoy learning languages immensely. The only way to learn, as my Dad once told me, was to open your mouth and don’t be scared to make a fool of yourself!
Language shaming in Malaysia
The greatest shame is what UMNO has done to the educational system in Malaysia.
Academia absentia?
Malaysian universities have become surrogates for UMNO and the quality if education in Malaysia is atrocious and permeated by State-level politics.
Language shaming in Malaysia
Thank you for the interesting article. I agree with your points although speaking as a Malay Malaysia, I wonder to what extent does language shaming in the case of BM occur for non-Malays? I’ve seen and experienced language shaming of Malays who can’t speak BM well by other Malays but I never imagined non-Malays would be tutted for it as often.
Also, I’m curious if language shaming also happens within Chinese families when it comes to speaking Mandarin vs. ancestral language in schools and with family.
Myanmar’s Rohingya need tomorrow’s fairer world today
One in Three Rohingya Women Refugees Say They Were Raped
A correspondent for BenarNews, an RFA-affiliated online news service, who spent four days visiting the camps in southeastern Cox’s Bazar district, reported that 17 of the 54 Rohingya women she interviewed said they were raped while Myanmar’s military launched a brutal crackdown in northern Rakhine state after nine police officers were attacked and killed by an armed Rohingya insurgent group in October.
http://www.rfa.org/english/news/myanmar/rohingya-bangladesh-01192017181052.html
Doctor, my eyes
I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss it, Peter. Like Zipf’s Law, the more you dig into it, the more fascinating it becomes.
Some more examples for the list: Dr. Patrick Ho Chi-ping, former Secretary for Home Affairs for Hong Kong; Dr. Friedrich Akel, Head of State of Estonia; Dr. Emilio Álvarez Montalván, Nicaraguan Foreign Minister; Dr. Vivian Balakrishnan, Singaporean Minister of Foreign Affairs; Dr. Nila Moeloek, former Indonesian Minister of Health, and Dr. Ċensu Tabone, former President of Malta.
Confronting ‘Chinese privilege’ in Singapore
Another important factor is the large number of temporary migrants living in Singapore. Mainly Indonesian and Filipino they are at the bottom of the heap
Nationalism and genetics: Thai obsession with race
How many times have we heard Prayut complain ‘ are you Thai ‘ ?
Being unique is the foundation of their fable .
Reality is Chinese in the North and Malaya in the South .
Doctor, my eyes
In sum, eye doctors have become politicians before, and having read this headline, one might have thought that, counterintuitively, that profession perhaps left a common set of traits on its political practitioners.
Then, stuff about Thailand strung together with stuff about Rand Paul– who is courageous when agreeing with the author’s political preferences but “goose-stepping” when not–and something about Rizal and Assad.
Why, New Mandala?
Andrew MacGregor Marshall’s royalist history
This revelation is only surprising when you compare it to the behaviour expected from police and law enforcement agencies in the first world.
Everyone else recognises this is fairly typical behaviour from Thais, disappointing though it is. Thais do not understand why the world does not accept their superiority. This is one of the reasons.
But then after 60-odd years of being ripped off and propagandised, it’s reasonable to ask what else one could expect. The delusions of budgies that think they’re eagles are safe enough while they stay in their cage.
Time to draw the line
It makes me ashamed to be Australian. Yet again!
Andrew MacGregor Marshall’s royalist history
The Thai police have intimidated the family of the wife of a former Bangkok-based British journalist wanted for lèse majesté.
At 3 pm on 18 January 2017, Ruedeewan Lahthip, the mother-in-law of Andrew MacGregor Marshall, a British journalist accused of lèse majesté, told BBC Thai that two policewomen in plainclothes visited her house to look for her daughter, Noppawan “Ploy” Bunluesilp, 39.
As Noppawan was not at home, the policewoman told Ruedeewan that their superior would like Marshall not to post information deemed defamatory to the Thai Monarchy online again.
“They were polite and said “please tell Andrew that [if he likes or does not like certain things] he should keep this to himself and not post [certain] images, so his child can come back to Thailand with no worries,” Ruedeewan told the BBC Thai.
http://prachatai.org/english/node/6852