Excellent article – but I can’t see that this is “a test case in unusual and extreme circumstances”. The author undermines his own argument with that conclusion, since beating the ethnic and religious drum has long been standard fare, in Indonesian politics. But I’d like to know if the author thinks Ahok also brought this upon himself, by lack of – or woefully INADEQUATE compensation to those pushed aside, or simply downtrodden, by Ahok’s “programmatic politics” ? There’s HUGE mention of RELIGION in all this – but WHERE is any mention of CLASS ?
Sir: While I see some of your points, by arguing that there’s no difference at all between “conservative” and “moderate” Muslims, I’m sorry to say this, but I’m afraid your arguments is bordering on Islamophobia, which I also consider to be an equally dangerous ideology like Islamism is.
Moderate cleric and activists still exist within both NU and Muhammadiyah. They work together with non-Muslims, Ahmadis, Shiites, and other minorities that are often targeted by the Islamists in their intolerance campaigns. Just look at NU youth wing (GP Ansor) activists who stood for days guarding churches, temples, and other minorities places of worship (even Ahmadi mosques in some cases)
on religious holidays and whenever there are credible threats being directed against these worship places from FPI or other Islamists.
The main point of my article is not to deny the existence of moderate Islam in Indonesia. Instead, it is to assert that these moderates are being put under the defensive by the Islamists as their organizations are being co-opted and taken over by conservative elements who share theological and political goal of the Islamists.
I understand the frustation of numerous non-Muslim friends regarding the consistent attacks, persecutions, and harrassments they face everyday from the Islamists but to say that there are no “moderate Muslims” — with exception of the late Abdurrahman Wahid and possibly the late Nurcolish Madjid, is also an extreme and narrow viewpoints. As I state above, it borders on Islamophobia.
Before you reply with endless barrage of counter-polemics, I should announce that I am not interested in engaging in such, and this will be my only response to your comments. I base my research on laborous first-hand fieldwork in Indonesia and I am presenting what I see and hear from the field from my narasumber. No more and no less.
I also suggest that you read Jeremy Menchik’s book that I recommend to Mr Krishna earlier in order to understand the complexity of Islam in Indonesia, their relations with the state, and other religious minorities. But only read it if you are truly interested to learn more about Indonesian Islam and the complexity it is facing today. If you are only interested in engaging in polemics, it will only be wasting your time and money.
Sir: Only a very small number of Indonesian Muslims belong to the “floating and cosmopolitan” (perhaps “secular”??) Muslim groupings that you seem to describe in your commentary and they tend to be the well-educated, upper-class Indonesian elites with education from US, Aussie, or other Western universities – of which the Islamists like to associate with the now defunct “Liberal Islamic Network” (Jaringan Islam Liberal) of the late 1990s/early 2000s
The vast majority of Indonesian Muslims, be there are rural Muslims who obey (‘taqlid’) whatever their ulamas are saying or the upper and middle-class Muslims living in large towns and cities throughout Indonesia, still feeling the need to belong to a Muslim organization as part of their religious devotions. In Indonesia, this organization is usually NU or Muhammadiyah, although Islamist groups like PKS, HTI, and others are also competing for their allegiances as well. And a large number of these Muslims are not “moderates” (at least when you frame it in Western construct, where it often rhymes with “liberals”). While on their daily basis they might have a “live and let live” attitudes toward Non-Muslims and in some cases toward Muslim Minorities like Ahmadis or Shiites, this does not mean that theologically they accept these minorities as equals and that it is OK for these minorities to compete head to head with Muslims for potential converts, an ideal-type environment where full religious freedom and tolerance prevails. The numerous violent incidents affecting Ahmadis, Shiites, Christians, and other minorities in Indonesia over the past decade or so is a reflection to this sad state of affairs.
However, before you condemn these Muslims as “backward fanatics,” please keep in mind that the violences are often (but not exclusively, as there are important economic and political considerations at play as well) rooted in the literalist and exclusivist intrepretation of Islam that are promoted by the newer, Indonesian Islamist groups I have discussed in the article. They are not rooted in the more flexible, nuanced interpretations that are historically promoted by moderate Islamic groups like NU and Muhammadiyah, which the Islamists are seeking to replace by cooperating (read: “co-opting”) with the conservative factions from both groups.
Moderation in the Indonesian contexts should not be equaled with religious freedom and toleration that prevail in liberal and secular Western countries. For a further reading on this, I suggest you read Jeremy Menchik’s ” Islam and Democracy in Indonesia: Tolerance without Liberalism” that was published just last year. You may order it on: https://www.amazon.com/Islam-Democracy-Indonesia-Tolerance-Liberalism/dp/1107119146
Actually the vast majority of Indonesian “pribumi” Christians as well as Hindus (from Bali living in Jakarta) support Ahok, so stopp bullsh … ing. And considering how many votes he got yesterday there were quite a lot of moderate, non-bigot, Muslim Indonesians which voted for him too.
If you think about how much business Tommy Suharto and the other kids and hangers-on still control in Indonesia as well as the Habibie clan, the Prabowos etc. etc. , all “pribumi”, not Chinese-Indonesians, I think it’s a myth that all the capital in Indonesia is controlled by Chinese-Indonesians. I would agree though that they are to some extent over-represented in the upper-middle and upper classes.
The majority of Chinese-Indonesian tycoons didn’t support Ahok anyway, because they much prefer to do business with corrupt non-Chinese-Indonesians than with a clean politician like Ahok. They will much prefer Anies Baswedan now.
What you stated about the Chinese dominance is true, but take a quick look on Facebook wall of an Indonesian and you would find that yes, religion does play an important role in voters’ decision.
If viewed as an organization, yes, you are correct. NU and Muhammadiyah are becoming more conservative. But in general, the rest of Indonesian people are no longer align with any Islamic mass organization. Just look at official facebook page of NU and Muhammadiyah (not to mention FPI). They have minuscule number of follower in comparison to the mass of active facebook account in Indonesia. I think, Islamic mass organization are becoming more conservative while at the same time, the people are becoming more moderate.
This is the reason why Islamic mass organization becomes more conservative. They thought it’s the easiest way to attract audience to their dwindling followers. The conservative will always be more willing to act out. This attract attention and if they manage to have the government acquiesce to their demand, than this will attract follower, power, and money.
The article oversimplifies a situation that requires historical and economic context. The economy of Indonesia is controlled by its ethnic Chinese businessmen. They achieved such dominance in large part because of their collaboration, to the detriment and puposeful marginalization of Indonesian natives to the peasantry, with the Dutch colonizers and then with the Suharto kleptocracy. The financial and economic control of the country by the ethnic Chinese has only strengthened since Suharto’s fall and the rise of the corrupt quasi-democratic political system now in force. And so any fair observer of the Jakarta election should understand why a native Indonesian of any religion might be loath to want to grant even more power, governmental power, to an ethnic Chinese tycoon like Ahok.
This is about Indonesia, not some western country, and moreover, if the clowns in the western world apply more restrain, we’d all be in a better place.
This is disgusting victim blaming: “Moreover, Ahok himself presented a soft target given his readiness to comment freely on Islamic religious matters, and his inability to restrain himself when called for …” It is hardly imaginable Western intellectuals writing in this fashion about prominent members of religious and ethnic minorities in Western countries without provoking an outcry. Why this pseudo-liberal double-standard, when it comes to Muslim-majority countries?
Ahok talked about “Islamic religious matters” because his political enemies used Islam against him. Does the author want to say that only Muslims are allowed to talk about Islam, only Christians about Christianity etc. pp? What a horrible, anti-enlightenment attitude from an academic, a member of ANU faculty.
With academics and intellectuals like this it is really no wonder that there are so many right-wing populist movements on the rise all over the Western world.
Totally agree with the author. Conservatism is growing here in Indonesia. Sad but true. Yes, the blasphemy case was ‘launched’ by politician with, of course, political intent. But it succeeds in creating attention from Indonesian moslems. In short, if you were an indonesian moderate rational moslem, you wouldn’ t buy into this ‘cheap’ case created by politician.
Thanks a lot for this well researched article. I get tired when I hear the clichés and platitudes about “moderate” Indonesian Islam and the “moderate” NU and Muhammadiyah. The author of this article clearly explains the conservative, I would say fundamentalist Islamist, anti-Indonesian, direction important parts of both organizations have taken, together with the rest of Indonesian Islam.
The hypocrisy and ignorance of these conservative and radical Islamists knows no boundaries. If people want to understand the attitude of supremacist Muslims in Indonesia they just have to read commentaries like the one from “Sufradin Amin” above. He, like his Islamist, anti-Pancasila friends, behave like they own Indonesia. If some conservative and radical Muslims feel “insulted”, everything has to stand still and the president “has to” speak to them. If he does not immediately address them they have the right to be even more angry. Why do these imbeciles think their feelings and attitudes are so important ?! It’s a toxic mixture of superiority complex, Wahhabist, anti-Indonesian ideology, and grotesque oversensitivity. And they will ruin the beautiful, multi-ethnic, multi-religious country of Indonesia and turn it into Indostan if the government and state security doesn’t stop them asap.
Although Republika as well as countless other printed, radio and online media support them in their hateful ideology they say they “have no voice.” Their hypocrisy, as I said, knows no boundaries. Neither does their willful ignorance. We all know that the Ahok video was falsely edited and transcribed. Civilized countries have no blasphemy law or if they have one, they don’t use it.
Yet here they are, the conservative and fundamentalist Islamists of Indonesia, intolerant and full of hate, yet they still want to be considered as an example of “moderate Islam” and get angry – even more angry, they are always angry and always pretend they have to “defend Islam” – when somebody calls them out for what they are: Fundamentalist haters, standing outside of the history, the traditions and the constitution of Indonesia
Let’s leave out religion, conservatism & moderate. The “mother” of all this problem is just simple “politic and money” in the beginning.
Just simple self-interests on certain individuals and when their “self-interests” not well accomodated then all methods will be highly utilised.
In virtually Every country “Class” discrimination does exist. (Not Caste – but Class)
And you don’t have to “Live Everywhere” to know what’s going on in other countries. Modern people are educated enough thank you.
And before you get this all wrong – just check the number of violent crimes Muslims have been involved in all over the world before casting aspersions on other communities as being ‘racist killers’- so YOU better back it with evidence if you think Hindus are the Killers and Muslims are the sons of God born with a ‘licence to kill’ (so that their killings are part of some bloody Jihad and not to be counted as killings at all) Of course you have your own set of religious leaders saying “These terrorists aren’t Muslims” (great – so you disown them and their actions when it’s convenient and for all the right that good Muslims do – they are the “true face of Islam!”) and yet, then come in hordes of thousand for the funeral of these “Martyrs” – oh these scheming, lying, double faced people (and, of course they are not true Muslims at all – just some “misled” youths)
Why do you remain so quiet when a Muslim artist paints Hindu Gods & Goddesses in outrageous ways – and your scheming politicians actually discuss why it should be part of “artistic freedom” – why then aren’t you as vociferous in standing against something that you know is totally wrong; and then, when a Dutch Cartoonist paints the Prophet in a demeaning way are you so outraged?
For Muslims to gain acceptance in the larger part of a civilized world, they have to go beyond the Koran, and accept philosophies belonging to other religions too – rather than be lead by dictates handed down thousands of years back. Society and times have changed, and so must all religions.
But when we are ensconced within our beliefs of “we are the perfect people, or religion, or race, or society” then this very prejudice is the cause of friction among people.
Regards.
What stupid nonsense is this?
Godhra was the result of Congress’s unbridled desire for power. See the interview on you tube where your minister Digvijay Singh has no justification of why not a single policeman was sent from ANY of the Congress ruled states around Gujarat, despite repeated requests from Gujarat Government.
And what about the massacre of Hindus where entire train compartments were burnt down – and which was the flash point for Godhra? Why do Indian political “leaders” (read Congress) only talk about Godhra – because they want to play the communal card which they have played since Independence. And even the so called ‘Indian Muslims’ ethnically, were Hindus forced into conversions – these very Muslims who so zealously defend ‘their’ religion.
Go into the family history of most Indian Muslims – just before the times of British era and you will then know who their forefathers were before the times of Aurangzebs & Tipu Sultans.
This, of course doesn’t absolve Hindus from their own ills of casteism and ethnic violence – but trying to paint them as sole perpetrators of wrong doing is far from the true picture.
Had it not been so – how then could a country as vast, as powerful and as financially sound as India, have succumbed to a handful of us Brits?
Thank you for your comments, but I respectfully disagree with it. I based my analysis from the data I collected on the ground as a field researcher working in Indonesia. “Convergence” between the conservatives and certain elements of NU and Muhammadiyah (but not all as there are still many moderates within both groups) is definitely happening on the ground. One quick example: just yesterday I spoke with a NU kyai who is also a member of the Provincial NU board who openly told me that NU, FPI, and HTI are “fellow comrades in a struggle” (teman seperjuangan) – something that has publicly been rebuked by the current NU central leadership (PBNU) but more importantly, this statement contradicts the long standing theological differences between NU and HTI that in the past had long divided the organization.
The same kyai also said that violence committed by FPI activists should be viewed on a “case by case” basis – sometimes they are unlawful but at other times they are justified and that NU and FPI only differs on the methods and strategies of the “perjuangan” but not on the ultimate goals. This also contradicts PBNU’s official statement that have consistently condemned FPI’s numerous attacks against Muslim and Non-Muslim minorities over the past decade. The fact that a NU kyai who is a member of its provincial board can make these statements (and gets away with little repercussions from PBNU) shows 1) a strong affinity between certain elements of NU with the theological and political agenda of more Islamist groups that historically has had strong disagreements with NU and 2) the lack of ability for NU leadership to sanction or discipline them for holding views that are in clear contradictions with the official theology of the organization.
While this is a N=1 case illustration, evidences from my own research (as well as secondary accounts), clearly shows that the kyai is not an outlier within NU. Yes, most NU (and Muhammadiyah) members are still holding moderate theological views that differ from the Islamists, but the number of the “conservative” elements within both organization is growing and if they go unchecked, could clearly led both groups to have different theological and political orientation over the next decade, especially after the top leadership of both groups have changed.
I stand by the conclusion of my research, and if you still not agreeing with it, well, we just have to agree to disagree.
Hi, I think you miss the point. It is nothing to do with conservative and moderate Islam. If you search in detail, the participants and supporters of the protest come from different and various background ranging from very soft-moderat muslim, even we can call them abangan, to the other extreme, most conservative group. The people participating in it are comedian, tv broadcasters, musicians, religious group, mentalist, pro democracy activists, NU and Muhammadiyah members (the two are commonly seen as moderate Moslem groups), common-lay people, and members of more hard-liner Islamic organizations.
The core of the problem is not moderate vs conservative but rather something to do with 1) Mr Ahok’s statement on holy Qur’an, 2) Moslem leaders wanted to meet the president Jokowi to talk about that, but he seems avoid the meeting, 2) late response from the government (Jokowi and Police). The moslem leaders report the case to police but the police said so far there was not formal statement from Muslim Council (MUI) saying it as blasphemy. Later after the MUI issued its decree saying what Ahok’s statement is blasphemy, they brought that to the police, but again the police declined it by saying it couldn’t be proceeded until after the regional election (pilkada) of DKI. All this made moslem from various background (moderate and conservative) felt that the Jokowi government tried to protect Ahok, and sense of unfairness and injustice spread quickly. It seems like this kind of government’s response brought their collective memory to the past when Moslem was marginalized and treated unfair under Sukarno and Suharto (check F. Wertheim’s article on “Moslem under Sukarno and Suharto: the majority with minority mentality). So, the sense of being treated unjustly by government led to the growing unrest, and some of the leaders organize this to a organized protest which are supported and followed by members of moderate and conservative groups. Remember, even though NU leader asked their members not to join the protest, their members from various parts of Indonesia came to Jakarta to join the protest by using their own resources and some even bring NU flags. So the protest would not grow like this if the government (central government and police) response the case well in the beginning. They always one step behind.
lastly, I think you need to investigate deeply and more detail (like what an ethnographer does) in order to cover not just whole stories around it, but also you can sense how they sense, you can listen the voices of the voiceless (those people usually are object of discussions on TV screens but their own voices were not really listened, or their statements were listened then recorded by TV news and then those statements become good topics on TV screen where the TV invite scholars from NGOs or Universities to discuss about the topics. They are object, not subject of their own statements. They are voiceless on the TV screen and print medias. If we want to make strong statement or conclusions about these people, we need to listen their voices, understand the way they understand, understand their powerless and voiceless position in macro-political structure (example like how the government did not respond them, even president “did not want to meet them at the beginning). we need to cover all detail data on the organizers and participants which clearly mix between santri, abangan, and priyayi.
Regards, Amin.
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Interpreting the Jakarta election
Excellent article – but I can’t see that this is “a test case in unusual and extreme circumstances”. The author undermines his own argument with that conclusion, since beating the ethnic and religious drum has long been standard fare, in Indonesian politics. But I’d like to know if the author thinks Ahok also brought this upon himself, by lack of – or woefully INADEQUATE compensation to those pushed aside, or simply downtrodden, by Ahok’s “programmatic politics” ? There’s HUGE mention of RELIGION in all this – but WHERE is any mention of CLASS ?
A crown prince and German affairs
Trump is toxic?
Are you certain Obama was not and Clinton would not be?
The missing middle
Sir: While I see some of your points, by arguing that there’s no difference at all between “conservative” and “moderate” Muslims, I’m sorry to say this, but I’m afraid your arguments is bordering on Islamophobia, which I also consider to be an equally dangerous ideology like Islamism is.
Moderate cleric and activists still exist within both NU and Muhammadiyah. They work together with non-Muslims, Ahmadis, Shiites, and other minorities that are often targeted by the Islamists in their intolerance campaigns. Just look at NU youth wing (GP Ansor) activists who stood for days guarding churches, temples, and other minorities places of worship (even Ahmadi mosques in some cases)
on religious holidays and whenever there are credible threats being directed against these worship places from FPI or other Islamists.
The main point of my article is not to deny the existence of moderate Islam in Indonesia. Instead, it is to assert that these moderates are being put under the defensive by the Islamists as their organizations are being co-opted and taken over by conservative elements who share theological and political goal of the Islamists.
I understand the frustation of numerous non-Muslim friends regarding the consistent attacks, persecutions, and harrassments they face everyday from the Islamists but to say that there are no “moderate Muslims” — with exception of the late Abdurrahman Wahid and possibly the late Nurcolish Madjid, is also an extreme and narrow viewpoints. As I state above, it borders on Islamophobia.
Before you reply with endless barrage of counter-polemics, I should announce that I am not interested in engaging in such, and this will be my only response to your comments. I base my research on laborous first-hand fieldwork in Indonesia and I am presenting what I see and hear from the field from my narasumber. No more and no less.
I also suggest that you read Jeremy Menchik’s book that I recommend to Mr Krishna earlier in order to understand the complexity of Islam in Indonesia, their relations with the state, and other religious minorities. But only read it if you are truly interested to learn more about Indonesian Islam and the complexity it is facing today. If you are only interested in engaging in polemics, it will only be wasting your time and money.
The missing middle
Sir: Only a very small number of Indonesian Muslims belong to the “floating and cosmopolitan” (perhaps “secular”??) Muslim groupings that you seem to describe in your commentary and they tend to be the well-educated, upper-class Indonesian elites with education from US, Aussie, or other Western universities – of which the Islamists like to associate with the now defunct “Liberal Islamic Network” (Jaringan Islam Liberal) of the late 1990s/early 2000s
The vast majority of Indonesian Muslims, be there are rural Muslims who obey (‘taqlid’) whatever their ulamas are saying or the upper and middle-class Muslims living in large towns and cities throughout Indonesia, still feeling the need to belong to a Muslim organization as part of their religious devotions. In Indonesia, this organization is usually NU or Muhammadiyah, although Islamist groups like PKS, HTI, and others are also competing for their allegiances as well. And a large number of these Muslims are not “moderates” (at least when you frame it in Western construct, where it often rhymes with “liberals”). While on their daily basis they might have a “live and let live” attitudes toward Non-Muslims and in some cases toward Muslim Minorities like Ahmadis or Shiites, this does not mean that theologically they accept these minorities as equals and that it is OK for these minorities to compete head to head with Muslims for potential converts, an ideal-type environment where full religious freedom and tolerance prevails. The numerous violent incidents affecting Ahmadis, Shiites, Christians, and other minorities in Indonesia over the past decade or so is a reflection to this sad state of affairs.
However, before you condemn these Muslims as “backward fanatics,” please keep in mind that the violences are often (but not exclusively, as there are important economic and political considerations at play as well) rooted in the literalist and exclusivist intrepretation of Islam that are promoted by the newer, Indonesian Islamist groups I have discussed in the article. They are not rooted in the more flexible, nuanced interpretations that are historically promoted by moderate Islamic groups like NU and Muhammadiyah, which the Islamists are seeking to replace by cooperating (read: “co-opting”) with the conservative factions from both groups.
Moderation in the Indonesian contexts should not be equaled with religious freedom and toleration that prevail in liberal and secular Western countries. For a further reading on this, I suggest you read Jeremy Menchik’s ” Islam and Democracy in Indonesia: Tolerance without Liberalism” that was published just last year. You may order it on: https://www.amazon.com/Islam-Democracy-Indonesia-Tolerance-Liberalism/dp/1107119146
Interpreting the Jakarta election
Actually the vast majority of Indonesian “pribumi” Christians as well as Hindus (from Bali living in Jakarta) support Ahok, so stopp bullsh … ing. And considering how many votes he got yesterday there were quite a lot of moderate, non-bigot, Muslim Indonesians which voted for him too.
If you think about how much business Tommy Suharto and the other kids and hangers-on still control in Indonesia as well as the Habibie clan, the Prabowos etc. etc. , all “pribumi”, not Chinese-Indonesians, I think it’s a myth that all the capital in Indonesia is controlled by Chinese-Indonesians. I would agree though that they are to some extent over-represented in the upper-middle and upper classes.
The majority of Chinese-Indonesian tycoons didn’t support Ahok anyway, because they much prefer to do business with corrupt non-Chinese-Indonesians than with a clean politician like Ahok. They will much prefer Anies Baswedan now.
Interpreting the Jakarta election
What you stated about the Chinese dominance is true, but take a quick look on Facebook wall of an Indonesian and you would find that yes, religion does play an important role in voters’ decision.
The missing middle
If viewed as an organization, yes, you are correct. NU and Muhammadiyah are becoming more conservative. But in general, the rest of Indonesian people are no longer align with any Islamic mass organization. Just look at official facebook page of NU and Muhammadiyah (not to mention FPI). They have minuscule number of follower in comparison to the mass of active facebook account in Indonesia. I think, Islamic mass organization are becoming more conservative while at the same time, the people are becoming more moderate.
This is the reason why Islamic mass organization becomes more conservative. They thought it’s the easiest way to attract audience to their dwindling followers. The conservative will always be more willing to act out. This attract attention and if they manage to have the government acquiesce to their demand, than this will attract follower, power, and money.
Interpreting the Jakarta election
The article oversimplifies a situation that requires historical and economic context. The economy of Indonesia is controlled by its ethnic Chinese businessmen. They achieved such dominance in large part because of their collaboration, to the detriment and puposeful marginalization of Indonesian natives to the peasantry, with the Dutch colonizers and then with the Suharto kleptocracy. The financial and economic control of the country by the ethnic Chinese has only strengthened since Suharto’s fall and the rise of the corrupt quasi-democratic political system now in force. And so any fair observer of the Jakarta election should understand why a native Indonesian of any religion might be loath to want to grant even more power, governmental power, to an ethnic Chinese tycoon like Ahok.
Interpreting the Jakarta election
This is about Indonesia, not some western country, and moreover, if the clowns in the western world apply more restrain, we’d all be in a better place.
Interpreting the Jakarta election
This is disgusting victim blaming: “Moreover, Ahok himself presented a soft target given his readiness to comment freely on Islamic religious matters, and his inability to restrain himself when called for …” It is hardly imaginable Western intellectuals writing in this fashion about prominent members of religious and ethnic minorities in Western countries without provoking an outcry. Why this pseudo-liberal double-standard, when it comes to Muslim-majority countries?
Ahok talked about “Islamic religious matters” because his political enemies used Islam against him. Does the author want to say that only Muslims are allowed to talk about Islam, only Christians about Christianity etc. pp? What a horrible, anti-enlightenment attitude from an academic, a member of ANU faculty.
With academics and intellectuals like this it is really no wonder that there are so many right-wing populist movements on the rise all over the Western world.
The missing middle
Totally agree with the author. Conservatism is growing here in Indonesia. Sad but true. Yes, the blasphemy case was ‘launched’ by politician with, of course, political intent. But it succeeds in creating attention from Indonesian moslems. In short, if you were an indonesian moderate rational moslem, you wouldn’ t buy into this ‘cheap’ case created by politician.
The missing middle
Thanks a lot for this well researched article. I get tired when I hear the clichés and platitudes about “moderate” Indonesian Islam and the “moderate” NU and Muhammadiyah. The author of this article clearly explains the conservative, I would say fundamentalist Islamist, anti-Indonesian, direction important parts of both organizations have taken, together with the rest of Indonesian Islam.
The hypocrisy and ignorance of these conservative and radical Islamists knows no boundaries. If people want to understand the attitude of supremacist Muslims in Indonesia they just have to read commentaries like the one from “Sufradin Amin” above. He, like his Islamist, anti-Pancasila friends, behave like they own Indonesia. If some conservative and radical Muslims feel “insulted”, everything has to stand still and the president “has to” speak to them. If he does not immediately address them they have the right to be even more angry. Why do these imbeciles think their feelings and attitudes are so important ?! It’s a toxic mixture of superiority complex, Wahhabist, anti-Indonesian ideology, and grotesque oversensitivity. And they will ruin the beautiful, multi-ethnic, multi-religious country of Indonesia and turn it into Indostan if the government and state security doesn’t stop them asap.
Although Republika as well as countless other printed, radio and online media support them in their hateful ideology they say they “have no voice.” Their hypocrisy, as I said, knows no boundaries. Neither does their willful ignorance. We all know that the Ahok video was falsely edited and transcribed. Civilized countries have no blasphemy law or if they have one, they don’t use it.
Yet here they are, the conservative and fundamentalist Islamists of Indonesia, intolerant and full of hate, yet they still want to be considered as an example of “moderate Islam” and get angry – even more angry, they are always angry and always pretend they have to “defend Islam” – when somebody calls them out for what they are: Fundamentalist haters, standing outside of the history, the traditions and the constitution of Indonesia
The missing middle
Let’s leave out religion, conservatism & moderate. The “mother” of all this problem is just simple “politic and money” in the beginning.
Just simple self-interests on certain individuals and when their “self-interests” not well accomodated then all methods will be highly utilised.
Malaysian Indians: A sad story
In virtually Every country “Class” discrimination does exist. (Not Caste – but Class)
And you don’t have to “Live Everywhere” to know what’s going on in other countries. Modern people are educated enough thank you.
And before you get this all wrong – just check the number of violent crimes Muslims have been involved in all over the world before casting aspersions on other communities as being ‘racist killers’- so YOU better back it with evidence if you think Hindus are the Killers and Muslims are the sons of God born with a ‘licence to kill’ (so that their killings are part of some bloody Jihad and not to be counted as killings at all) Of course you have your own set of religious leaders saying “These terrorists aren’t Muslims” (great – so you disown them and their actions when it’s convenient and for all the right that good Muslims do – they are the “true face of Islam!”) and yet, then come in hordes of thousand for the funeral of these “Martyrs” – oh these scheming, lying, double faced people (and, of course they are not true Muslims at all – just some “misled” youths)
Why do you remain so quiet when a Muslim artist paints Hindu Gods & Goddesses in outrageous ways – and your scheming politicians actually discuss why it should be part of “artistic freedom” – why then aren’t you as vociferous in standing against something that you know is totally wrong; and then, when a Dutch Cartoonist paints the Prophet in a demeaning way are you so outraged?
For Muslims to gain acceptance in the larger part of a civilized world, they have to go beyond the Koran, and accept philosophies belonging to other religions too – rather than be lead by dictates handed down thousands of years back. Society and times have changed, and so must all religions.
But when we are ensconced within our beliefs of “we are the perfect people, or religion, or race, or society” then this very prejudice is the cause of friction among people.
Regards.
Ethnicity and Jakarta’s election
More interestingly, if you repeat the survey but now with sampling only non-Muslim either chinese or not.
why not doing that ?
Malaysian Indians: A sad story
What stupid nonsense is this?
Godhra was the result of Congress’s unbridled desire for power. See the interview on you tube where your minister Digvijay Singh has no justification of why not a single policeman was sent from ANY of the Congress ruled states around Gujarat, despite repeated requests from Gujarat Government.
And what about the massacre of Hindus where entire train compartments were burnt down – and which was the flash point for Godhra? Why do Indian political “leaders” (read Congress) only talk about Godhra – because they want to play the communal card which they have played since Independence. And even the so called ‘Indian Muslims’ ethnically, were Hindus forced into conversions – these very Muslims who so zealously defend ‘their’ religion.
Go into the family history of most Indian Muslims – just before the times of British era and you will then know who their forefathers were before the times of Aurangzebs & Tipu Sultans.
This, of course doesn’t absolve Hindus from their own ills of casteism and ethnic violence – but trying to paint them as sole perpetrators of wrong doing is far from the true picture.
Had it not been so – how then could a country as vast, as powerful and as financially sound as India, have succumbed to a handful of us Brits?
The missing middle
Thank you for your comments, but I respectfully disagree with it. I based my analysis from the data I collected on the ground as a field researcher working in Indonesia. “Convergence” between the conservatives and certain elements of NU and Muhammadiyah (but not all as there are still many moderates within both groups) is definitely happening on the ground. One quick example: just yesterday I spoke with a NU kyai who is also a member of the Provincial NU board who openly told me that NU, FPI, and HTI are “fellow comrades in a struggle” (teman seperjuangan) – something that has publicly been rebuked by the current NU central leadership (PBNU) but more importantly, this statement contradicts the long standing theological differences between NU and HTI that in the past had long divided the organization.
The same kyai also said that violence committed by FPI activists should be viewed on a “case by case” basis – sometimes they are unlawful but at other times they are justified and that NU and FPI only differs on the methods and strategies of the “perjuangan” but not on the ultimate goals. This also contradicts PBNU’s official statement that have consistently condemned FPI’s numerous attacks against Muslim and Non-Muslim minorities over the past decade. The fact that a NU kyai who is a member of its provincial board can make these statements (and gets away with little repercussions from PBNU) shows 1) a strong affinity between certain elements of NU with the theological and political agenda of more Islamist groups that historically has had strong disagreements with NU and 2) the lack of ability for NU leadership to sanction or discipline them for holding views that are in clear contradictions with the official theology of the organization.
While this is a N=1 case illustration, evidences from my own research (as well as secondary accounts), clearly shows that the kyai is not an outlier within NU. Yes, most NU (and Muhammadiyah) members are still holding moderate theological views that differ from the Islamists, but the number of the “conservative” elements within both organization is growing and if they go unchecked, could clearly led both groups to have different theological and political orientation over the next decade, especially after the top leadership of both groups have changed.
I stand by the conclusion of my research, and if you still not agreeing with it, well, we just have to agree to disagree.
The missing middle
Hi, I think you miss the point. It is nothing to do with conservative and moderate Islam. If you search in detail, the participants and supporters of the protest come from different and various background ranging from very soft-moderat muslim, even we can call them abangan, to the other extreme, most conservative group. The people participating in it are comedian, tv broadcasters, musicians, religious group, mentalist, pro democracy activists, NU and Muhammadiyah members (the two are commonly seen as moderate Moslem groups), common-lay people, and members of more hard-liner Islamic organizations.
The core of the problem is not moderate vs conservative but rather something to do with 1) Mr Ahok’s statement on holy Qur’an, 2) Moslem leaders wanted to meet the president Jokowi to talk about that, but he seems avoid the meeting, 2) late response from the government (Jokowi and Police). The moslem leaders report the case to police but the police said so far there was not formal statement from Muslim Council (MUI) saying it as blasphemy. Later after the MUI issued its decree saying what Ahok’s statement is blasphemy, they brought that to the police, but again the police declined it by saying it couldn’t be proceeded until after the regional election (pilkada) of DKI. All this made moslem from various background (moderate and conservative) felt that the Jokowi government tried to protect Ahok, and sense of unfairness and injustice spread quickly. It seems like this kind of government’s response brought their collective memory to the past when Moslem was marginalized and treated unfair under Sukarno and Suharto (check F. Wertheim’s article on “Moslem under Sukarno and Suharto: the majority with minority mentality). So, the sense of being treated unjustly by government led to the growing unrest, and some of the leaders organize this to a organized protest which are supported and followed by members of moderate and conservative groups. Remember, even though NU leader asked their members not to join the protest, their members from various parts of Indonesia came to Jakarta to join the protest by using their own resources and some even bring NU flags. So the protest would not grow like this if the government (central government and police) response the case well in the beginning. They always one step behind.
lastly, I think you need to investigate deeply and more detail (like what an ethnographer does) in order to cover not just whole stories around it, but also you can sense how they sense, you can listen the voices of the voiceless (those people usually are object of discussions on TV screens but their own voices were not really listened, or their statements were listened then recorded by TV news and then those statements become good topics on TV screen where the TV invite scholars from NGOs or Universities to discuss about the topics. They are object, not subject of their own statements. They are voiceless on the TV screen and print medias. If we want to make strong statement or conclusions about these people, we need to listen their voices, understand the way they understand, understand their powerless and voiceless position in macro-political structure (example like how the government did not respond them, even president “did not want to meet them at the beginning). we need to cover all detail data on the organizers and participants which clearly mix between santri, abangan, and priyayi.
Regards, Amin.
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
Rohingyan girls forced to become child brides after fleeing to Malaysia
15th February 2017
https://asiancorrespondent.com/2017/02/rohingyan-girls-forced-become-child-brides-fleeing-malaysia/
The head vs the heart in the case against Ahok
Sorry but the Muslims started this, and now we’re supposed to feel sorry for them?