Thankyou for this excellent article. Dhammakaya is also not my kind of Buddhism. I disapprove of a few of their innovations, but at the same I also support some of their ideas, for example their Buddhist cartoons for children. From a larger perspective their eccentricity is not serious, far stranger versions of Buddhism exist in the world today, and in Thailand’s past.
My theory is that Dhammakaya is actually part of a resurgent folk Buddhism, long suppressed by the state. In challenging the stranglehold of state orthodoxy they are performing a great service for Thai Buddhism as a whole. Their vast wealth, satellite TV, internationalism and so forth are a deliberate design, to survive this confrontation with the state.
This isn’t about class or ethnicity. One of the prominent figure in the big demonstration is actually a muslim chinese. The protesters are also point out in many occasions that it is his infidel status that they have problem with.
Actually Ahok breaks the stigma that Chinese people only care for getting more money for themselves. Ahok, by his actions and evidenced by the responds from many mid and lower class people, shows that there is a chinese person that care for the people more than accumulating personal wealth.
You are talking about INADEQUATE compensation to those pushed aside. How about NONE? Before the time of Jokowi and Ahok it a common practice to just throw the people out if they do not have land and building certificate and let them find their ways to live. It is still happening now in some area outside of Jakarta. Please do some more research on this. Ahok at least provide them with flat (only has to pay maintenance costs), transporation, etc.
Bahtiar Nasir one of the demonstration leader asked, during a TV sermon, what is the point of Ahok’s good work such as fixing the flood problem if that means that the muslims in Jakarta are led by a Kuffar/Infidel.
Bang on Peter, top marks. The bircher-chewing PC brigade and the lizard people in the globalist media will never admit that the skull shape and wide forebrows of Johnny Turk make his heart 63.7% more likely to lust for the sweet milk of Vienna’s teat.
Thank you for that very good summary.
The points raised are important, and from the little i understand of the issue, some of the points raised i know to be true. While quite a few Red Shirts i know are followers, Dhammakaya itself indeed is not outright Red, has many uninvolved, and also Yellow followers. Yet the ultra-conservatives agenda and propaganda has transformed this increasingly into a proxy Red-Yellow conflict, and at the same time, as you said, a part of an attempt to control the Sangha, turning this into a Mahanikai/Thammayut conflict.
Civil war is always a disaster, always to be avoided. But Prayut’s re-centralisation and repression, makes it ever more likely. In my humble opinion, Thailand should introduce a more federal, de-centralised system. But that is simply my opinion. I NEVER interfere in Thai politics. As Professor Andrew Walker has pointed out, secession would be SO costly as to be grossly impoverishing.
Here’s a piece on Thai identity by two people who work very hard on getting to something factual for themselves. They don’t deny the myths, but they find that they must deny the attractiveness of being Thai in ways that the myths propound. They find all of that less alluring than the things they identify as foreign … using work that I am not familiar with from 20 years ago. I think it speaks to the roll of the myths for ordinary people, the meaning that they allow, and the distress that comes from coming face to face with one’s loss of confidence in them. And it’s a good listen. These two commentators are often good.
After a long wait, the ASEAN Convention has finally entered into force. The author is correct to point to the failure to address issues of prevention — at least so far. The securitization of the trafficking issue has proved ineffective, at best, and probably counter productive. Change will be hampered by the fact that (to date) ACTIP has been stuck within the security pillar of ASEAN. Moreover, the emphasis on easily tabulated prosecutions — while useful for the US. TIP Report — has rewarded quantity over quality. The well-documented excesses of labor brokers have rarely been addressed, and national labor laws in many countries are unenforced.
Thanks a lot for your accurate comment. No doubt that the development I indicate here is only one of many puzzle pieces that need to be put together to get a democratic regime. Also, your point with the judiciary is very true. However, if we take a look at (democratic) theory and also empirics (comparable cases), we might say two things: First, theoretically, to effectively grant the freedom of speech, assembly, and association as an autocracy without being responsive to the citizen’s demands makes it difficult (or even impossible) to endure. This is quite logical: autocracies usually perform badly in terms of providing their citizens with what they need/want. So there is a lot of grief and potential opposition. As long as the autocratic incumbents are repressing these voices, they can (normally) maintain their regimes. But once they allow the free airing of these grievances (normally directed at them in person) but are reluctant to step down, they will be sooner or later overthrown. Second, probably because of the first point, authoritarian regimes that have granted these basic rights in the past but withheld an open institutional power struggle (the core of democracy) have never sustained. The latter is also true for cases in which the incumbents have expressed their intention to build a “protected democracy” often insisting on themselves keeping veto power (e.g., Chile). To now transfer this to Myanmar: even if the Tatmadaw is aiming at a long-term “disciplined democracy”, it might be only a question of time when they will either have to completely withdraw from politics.
Thanks, it was indeed interesting. I still believe however that it (civil war) won’t happen. I also believe a landmark has been passed with the publication today of an article saying the election won’t now happen until the end of 2018. Entirely predictable and predicted. Anyone who believes a single word this self-appointed (at the end of a gun) government says is surely delusional.
Another landmark comes with demoting the Abbot of Dammakayo. The new head boy comprehensively shows his colours and seals his own fate. I think he will never be actually crowned, and thus the old ‘mor doo’ will be shown to have been right.
As predicted, I think Thailand will slowly come unravelled following the demise of the old head boy and an awareness that the new head boy is only out for what he can get. Pity – an opportunity missed. A civil war would be a much-needed catharsis (all major human development need a blood sacrifice to the Gods), but we’re talking about Thais and Thais have trouble getting out of their own way, so they will continue to miss out on the development side of things The rest of the world will pass them by while they delude themselves into thinking they are all superior and stuff.
This article and the BBC interview are both strikingly colonial. To make a fair copy of a Victorian missionary tract you simply have to replace ‘democracy and human rights’ with ‘Christian civilisation’ and the ‘international community’ with ‘Christendom’. The names have changed but the purpose and method are the same.
I’m not going to side with any party but would list some realities.
(1) There’re basically three parties involved in this case – Burmese, Rakhine and Muslims (including Rhohingya).
(2) They hate each other but no side is completely innocent as they may claim.
(3) Burmese as an invader/imperialist/chauvanist/outsider they commited most of the attrocities in Rakhine.
They sent Burmese peasants to establish villages and tried to change demography of that region. These people would claim they are locals when attacked by other groups.
A former military sergant personelly boosted me and my friend that they killed families of ‘Kalar’ (presumbly Rhohingya) who were living at fringe of villages at night.
(4) Some news coming out from Rakhine are exaggerated but majority of them are true. All people with sane mind from Burma know it.
(5) Although many of the Burmese nationalistic mindset or beliefs are absurd or dangerous, Aung San Su Kyi does not have enough influence to tame them.
And of course she said that she is now a politician.
So she just can’t do things that go against her supporters’ fantasies.
That would be end of her political career in Burma.
As simple as that.
Therefore, unless we can find a very creative way to solve this complex (although not that complex) situation, we can only wish this situation would just fade away or wait for a few decades more to cool things down, which are also absurd at its best.
I haven’t been able to locate the article you refer to, which is a pity because I’m sure it would be interesting.
Given however, the fact that in my perception Thais have a very short span of attention, I doubt that it would reflect the current situation. David Streckfuss Is always worth a read, and generally makes very good sense, but I suggest that even he would have to admit that what might have seemed promising three years ago is likely to be about as relevant to the current situation as a promising situation 300 years ago.
Nevertheless, if you have a link to the article you refer to, I would certainly be most interested to read it.
I take your point, then again I can’t agree with it. It may be the case that many in Isaan think of themselves as kon Lao, but I doubt that they are in a majority, mainly because of the perceived stigma of being ‘Lao people’. To me, it is a supreme irony that so many times look down their noses at so many other people.
Whatever the people in Isaan believe to be the case insofar as their nationality is concerned, or even so far as their culture is concerned, the reality is that they live in Thailand and are regarded as being Thai. Whilst it is true that most do not have birth certificates nor driving licences, most do have Thai ID cards, so they are Thai.
Having said that, I do sympathise with the view that over time, people are living in Isaan have been stigmatised, and are regarded by many Bangkok folk as being ‘Kwai’. However widespread this view is in Bangkok, I consider it to be invalid, and merely another manifestation of the ability of some Thais to regard themselves as being ‘superior’ in some way, though to be frank, the concept that any Thai has reasonable grounds to feel superior to anybody boggles my mind.
I don’t believe Isaan will ever split from the remainder of Thailand, I don’t think it’s realistic either economically or culturally. As I perceive it, most Isaan folk are thoroughly immersed in the Sino-Thai culture and would be incapable of extracting themselves from it, however beneficial I believe it would be for them.
Whilst I believe that armed conflict in Thailand is inevitable if the clowns that call themselves a government over the past few years don’t seriously change their ways (and it may already be too late if they do). I don’t believe it has anything to do with a perceived cultural affinity with Lao, but rather as a consequence of the politics and social order in Thailand, primitive and underdeveloped though they both may be.
As I recall, last year there was a considerable buzz among the expatriate community (particularly those who chatter amongst themselves on the already-doomed ThaiVisa.com) that Thailand was experiencing an exodus of Caucasian ex-patriates. I frankly doubt that came to anything (though I believe far too many in the expert expatriate community are merely barflies and/or sex addicts, and would in fact be doing Thailand a considerable favour by leaving).
As I see it, conflict or no, Thailand will remind much the same in next 20 years as it has been for the last 20 years. It’s no secret that I consider Thailand and Thais in general to be backward, and that their culture is more of a burden than a benefit; it’s also fair to say I did not reach that dismal conclusion from seeing evidence everywhere that the Thai culture is dynamic and adaptable – unless of course there’s a quick buck in it somewhere.
In conclusion, I cannot agree that Thailand, or even the Issan is in any kind of gestational period, unless of course they are gestating more of the same.
The sad saga of this brutal and ruthless North Korean regime continues unabated. The writing is on the wall that this hit was ordered by Kim Jong Un himself. The two women were well paid and used as “scapegoats” to cover up, to mislead, the authorities if they were caught. Only a child could be fooled by this case. Anyone who has followed the vicious acts perpetrated by the North Korean regime can see the writing on the wall. He was a ” thorn in the flesh” of Kim Jong Un and he had to be silenced, despite being protected by the Chinese authorities, who allowed him to remain in Macau under their protection. He knew too much, having been part of this ruthless, depraved family, that is willing to use any and every means available, at their disposal, to silence their own people.
The noose is being tightened and this regime is getting desperate and a desperate dictator like Kim Jong Un is using desperate measures to ensure his survival. It is just a matter of time before this sad saga comes to an end, either he will be assassinated or there will be a coup de tat, and regime change.
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The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
Thankyou for this excellent article. Dhammakaya is also not my kind of Buddhism. I disapprove of a few of their innovations, but at the same I also support some of their ideas, for example their Buddhist cartoons for children. From a larger perspective their eccentricity is not serious, far stranger versions of Buddhism exist in the world today, and in Thailand’s past.
My theory is that Dhammakaya is actually part of a resurgent folk Buddhism, long suppressed by the state. In challenging the stranglehold of state orthodoxy they are performing a great service for Thai Buddhism as a whole. Their vast wealth, satellite TV, internationalism and so forth are a deliberate design, to survive this confrontation with the state.
Interpreting the Jakarta election
This isn’t about class or ethnicity. One of the prominent figure in the big demonstration is actually a muslim chinese. The protesters are also point out in many occasions that it is his infidel status that they have problem with.
Actually Ahok breaks the stigma that Chinese people only care for getting more money for themselves. Ahok, by his actions and evidenced by the responds from many mid and lower class people, shows that there is a chinese person that care for the people more than accumulating personal wealth.
You are talking about INADEQUATE compensation to those pushed aside. How about NONE? Before the time of Jokowi and Ahok it a common practice to just throw the people out if they do not have land and building certificate and let them find their ways to live. It is still happening now in some area outside of Jakarta. Please do some more research on this. Ahok at least provide them with flat (only has to pay maintenance costs), transporation, etc.
Bahtiar Nasir one of the demonstration leader asked, during a TV sermon, what is the point of Ahok’s good work such as fixing the flood problem if that means that the muslims in Jakarta are led by a Kuffar/Infidel.
Suu Kyi’s state of denial
Bang on Peter, top marks. The bircher-chewing PC brigade and the lizard people in the globalist media will never admit that the skull shape and wide forebrows of Johnny Turk make his heart 63.7% more likely to lust for the sweet milk of Vienna’s teat.
The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
Thank you for that very good summary.
The points raised are important, and from the little i understand of the issue, some of the points raised i know to be true. While quite a few Red Shirts i know are followers, Dhammakaya itself indeed is not outright Red, has many uninvolved, and also Yellow followers. Yet the ultra-conservatives agenda and propaganda has transformed this increasingly into a proxy Red-Yellow conflict, and at the same time, as you said, a part of an attempt to control the Sangha, turning this into a Mahanikai/Thammayut conflict.
The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
to avoid any misunderstanding, the Baht 400 for the police & army is a per diem, (daily allowance) in addition to their usual salaries
The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
that is a great article indeed.
Private: Grieving as Thainess in 2017
Civil war is always a disaster, always to be avoided. But Prayut’s re-centralisation and repression, makes it ever more likely. In my humble opinion, Thailand should introduce a more federal, de-centralised system. But that is simply my opinion. I NEVER interfere in Thai politics. As Professor Andrew Walker has pointed out, secession would be SO costly as to be grossly impoverishing.
The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
What a circus – though tragic. Thanks Dr. Taylor for such an insightful article.
Private: Grieving as Thainess in 2017
Here’s a piece on Thai identity by two people who work very hard on getting to something factual for themselves. They don’t deny the myths, but they find that they must deny the attractiveness of being Thai in ways that the myths propound. They find all of that less alluring than the things they identify as foreign … using work that I am not familiar with from 20 years ago. I think it speaks to the roll of the myths for ordinary people, the meaning that they allow, and the distress that comes from coming face to face with one’s loss of confidence in them. And it’s a good listen. These two commentators are often good.
http://prachatai.org/journal/2017/03/70415
Tackling human trafficking in ASEAN
After a long wait, the ASEAN Convention has finally entered into force. The author is correct to point to the failure to address issues of prevention — at least so far. The securitization of the trafficking issue has proved ineffective, at best, and probably counter productive. Change will be hampered by the fact that (to date) ACTIP has been stuck within the security pillar of ASEAN. Moreover, the emphasis on easily tabulated prosecutions — while useful for the US. TIP Report — has rewarded quantity over quality. The well-documented excesses of labor brokers have rarely been addressed, and national labor laws in many countries are unenforced.
Does the data reveal declining dictatorship in Myanmar?
Thanks a lot for your accurate comment. No doubt that the development I indicate here is only one of many puzzle pieces that need to be put together to get a democratic regime. Also, your point with the judiciary is very true. However, if we take a look at (democratic) theory and also empirics (comparable cases), we might say two things: First, theoretically, to effectively grant the freedom of speech, assembly, and association as an autocracy without being responsive to the citizen’s demands makes it difficult (or even impossible) to endure. This is quite logical: autocracies usually perform badly in terms of providing their citizens with what they need/want. So there is a lot of grief and potential opposition. As long as the autocratic incumbents are repressing these voices, they can (normally) maintain their regimes. But once they allow the free airing of these grievances (normally directed at them in person) but are reluctant to step down, they will be sooner or later overthrown. Second, probably because of the first point, authoritarian regimes that have granted these basic rights in the past but withheld an open institutional power struggle (the core of democracy) have never sustained. The latter is also true for cases in which the incumbents have expressed their intention to build a “protected democracy” often insisting on themselves keeping veto power (e.g., Chile). To now transfer this to Myanmar: even if the Tatmadaw is aiming at a long-term “disciplined democracy”, it might be only a question of time when they will either have to completely withdraw from politics.
Private: Grieving as Thainess in 2017
Thanks, it was indeed interesting. I still believe however that it (civil war) won’t happen. I also believe a landmark has been passed with the publication today of an article saying the election won’t now happen until the end of 2018. Entirely predictable and predicted. Anyone who believes a single word this self-appointed (at the end of a gun) government says is surely delusional.
Another landmark comes with demoting the Abbot of Dammakayo. The new head boy comprehensively shows his colours and seals his own fate. I think he will never be actually crowned, and thus the old ‘mor doo’ will be shown to have been right.
As predicted, I think Thailand will slowly come unravelled following the demise of the old head boy and an awareness that the new head boy is only out for what he can get. Pity – an opportunity missed. A civil war would be a much-needed catharsis (all major human development need a blood sacrifice to the Gods), but we’re talking about Thais and Thais have trouble getting out of their own way, so they will continue to miss out on the development side of things The rest of the world will pass them by while they delude themselves into thinking they are all superior and stuff.
Comical in a way.
Suu Kyi’s state of denial
yep – there are a lot of very colonial/ Neo-colonial attitudes sprouting all over New Mandala currently.
Suu Kyi’s state of denial
This article and the BBC interview are both strikingly colonial. To make a fair copy of a Victorian missionary tract you simply have to replace ‘democracy and human rights’ with ‘Christian civilisation’ and the ‘international community’ with ‘Christendom’. The names have changed but the purpose and method are the same.
Time to draw the line
Time To Draw The Line is the title of a new documentary about the issue. If you want to be up to date on the issue and how many prominent Australians and others feel about it please check out the film. @timetodrawthelinedocumentary
https://au.demand.film/time-to-draw-the-line/
http://www.roninfilms.com.au/feature/14115/time-draw-line.html
http://www.frontyardfilms.com.au
Private: Grieving as Thainess in 2017
Le-fey, here is the URL :http://time.com/2948172/thailand-isaan-province-identity/
Suu Kyi’s state of denial
I’m not going to side with any party but would list some realities.
(1) There’re basically three parties involved in this case – Burmese, Rakhine and Muslims (including Rhohingya).
(2) They hate each other but no side is completely innocent as they may claim.
(3) Burmese as an invader/imperialist/chauvanist/outsider they commited most of the attrocities in Rakhine.
They sent Burmese peasants to establish villages and tried to change demography of that region. These people would claim they are locals when attacked by other groups.
A former military sergant personelly boosted me and my friend that they killed families of ‘Kalar’ (presumbly Rhohingya) who were living at fringe of villages at night.
(4) Some news coming out from Rakhine are exaggerated but majority of them are true. All people with sane mind from Burma know it.
(5) Although many of the Burmese nationalistic mindset or beliefs are absurd or dangerous, Aung San Su Kyi does not have enough influence to tame them.
And of course she said that she is now a politician.
So she just can’t do things that go against her supporters’ fantasies.
That would be end of her political career in Burma.
As simple as that.
Therefore, unless we can find a very creative way to solve this complex (although not that complex) situation, we can only wish this situation would just fade away or wait for a few decades more to cool things down, which are also absurd at its best.
Private: Grieving as Thainess in 2017
I haven’t been able to locate the article you refer to, which is a pity because I’m sure it would be interesting.
Given however, the fact that in my perception Thais have a very short span of attention, I doubt that it would reflect the current situation. David Streckfuss Is always worth a read, and generally makes very good sense, but I suggest that even he would have to admit that what might have seemed promising three years ago is likely to be about as relevant to the current situation as a promising situation 300 years ago.
Nevertheless, if you have a link to the article you refer to, I would certainly be most interested to read it.
Private: Grieving as Thainess in 2017
I take your point, then again I can’t agree with it. It may be the case that many in Isaan think of themselves as kon Lao, but I doubt that they are in a majority, mainly because of the perceived stigma of being ‘Lao people’. To me, it is a supreme irony that so many times look down their noses at so many other people.
Whatever the people in Isaan believe to be the case insofar as their nationality is concerned, or even so far as their culture is concerned, the reality is that they live in Thailand and are regarded as being Thai. Whilst it is true that most do not have birth certificates nor driving licences, most do have Thai ID cards, so they are Thai.
Having said that, I do sympathise with the view that over time, people are living in Isaan have been stigmatised, and are regarded by many Bangkok folk as being ‘Kwai’. However widespread this view is in Bangkok, I consider it to be invalid, and merely another manifestation of the ability of some Thais to regard themselves as being ‘superior’ in some way, though to be frank, the concept that any Thai has reasonable grounds to feel superior to anybody boggles my mind.
I don’t believe Isaan will ever split from the remainder of Thailand, I don’t think it’s realistic either economically or culturally. As I perceive it, most Isaan folk are thoroughly immersed in the Sino-Thai culture and would be incapable of extracting themselves from it, however beneficial I believe it would be for them.
Whilst I believe that armed conflict in Thailand is inevitable if the clowns that call themselves a government over the past few years don’t seriously change their ways (and it may already be too late if they do). I don’t believe it has anything to do with a perceived cultural affinity with Lao, but rather as a consequence of the politics and social order in Thailand, primitive and underdeveloped though they both may be.
As I recall, last year there was a considerable buzz among the expatriate community (particularly those who chatter amongst themselves on the already-doomed ThaiVisa.com) that Thailand was experiencing an exodus of Caucasian ex-patriates. I frankly doubt that came to anything (though I believe far too many in the expert expatriate community are merely barflies and/or sex addicts, and would in fact be doing Thailand a considerable favour by leaving).
As I see it, conflict or no, Thailand will remind much the same in next 20 years as it has been for the last 20 years. It’s no secret that I consider Thailand and Thais in general to be backward, and that their culture is more of a burden than a benefit; it’s also fair to say I did not reach that dismal conclusion from seeing evidence everywhere that the Thai culture is dynamic and adaptable – unless of course there’s a quick buck in it somewhere.
In conclusion, I cannot agree that Thailand, or even the Issan is in any kind of gestational period, unless of course they are gestating more of the same.
Killing Kim
The sad saga of this brutal and ruthless North Korean regime continues unabated. The writing is on the wall that this hit was ordered by Kim Jong Un himself. The two women were well paid and used as “scapegoats” to cover up, to mislead, the authorities if they were caught. Only a child could be fooled by this case. Anyone who has followed the vicious acts perpetrated by the North Korean regime can see the writing on the wall. He was a ” thorn in the flesh” of Kim Jong Un and he had to be silenced, despite being protected by the Chinese authorities, who allowed him to remain in Macau under their protection. He knew too much, having been part of this ruthless, depraved family, that is willing to use any and every means available, at their disposal, to silence their own people.
The noose is being tightened and this regime is getting desperate and a desperate dictator like Kim Jong Un is using desperate measures to ensure his survival. It is just a matter of time before this sad saga comes to an end, either he will be assassinated or there will be a coup de tat, and regime change.