A fine article very illuminating for the non-initiated and with the largely civilized comments, which provide more detail and nuance, really contribute to this stimulting intellectual exchange. One missing element in the article is the role/position of the new king and the larger royal household in this affair. Chris Beale and John Smith provide some light on this subject. My hypothesis would be that the weakening of an alternative source of authority would not only be beneficial to a somewhat paranoid military junta but also for King Vajiralongkorn himself who, it would seem, is not yet “steady on the throne”.
Traditionally, only a quorum of monks can defrock other monks and only for a very limited range of offenses. Vajiralongkorn could theoretically seize this power for himself in concert with corrupt monks like Dhiradhammo but this would have serious long term consequences.
Japan is known as a place of many temples, but no monks. When the Meiji government bowed to pressure from a group of failed monks and permitted marriage and the privatisation of temple property, Japanese Buddhism collapsed.
I remember a Buddhist conference where a group of Japanese priests were seated among the laypeople rather than the monks, on the grounds that they were really just lay Buddhist funeral directors. The Japanese delegation was very upset but all the other Buddhist delegations were united against them.
In Tibet the Chinese Communists have tried to replace revered lamas with party officials in costume, but nobody believes in them or respects them.
I pray that a similar fate does not befall Thailand.
I have no argument with Bhatia’s point (the message), nor do I have a problem with the messenger. However, perhaps in his eagerness to bolster his viewpoint, he is definitely slanting the interpretation of the data and damaging his own credibility.
I would certainly dispute the characterisation of Malaysia’s official statistics as “rubbery”.
I’d also like to know which investment banks are questioning official Malaysian data, because I know nearly all the bank economists (local and international) covering Malaysia, and I’ve never heard of this before. This isn’t to say there are no problems with Malaysian official statistics, but most of these relate to coverage and methodological issues, not fraud.
In any case, I’ve written and submitted a rebuttal to the way data was used in this article. I’d also welcome a chance to engage with Mr Bhatia directly, if anyone cares to provide a contact address.
Superb article – giving voice to those too often neglected. There’s an old Thai saying : “women are the hind legs of the elephant”. Well the rest of Thai society had better watch out – and make way – when those hind legs start moving.
Kundirikan’s comments have proved very prescient : Malaysia is now very much a friend of the US, given how North Korea has locked Malaysia into what may well be a five year – at best – stand off over their respective embassy sieges.
You must be kidding…..Najib calls the shots-he was well groomed by his father and an experienced politician. Do believe what the government puts out for consumption.
I agree with Greg on most points – a so called serious researcher should check their facts and not twist matters with intend to mislead.
Making statements like the Chinese insist on 99 year leases is complete and utter bull. For commercial transfer, land in malaysia are either ‘freehold” or 99 years lease. Ther is no such thing as insisting… There are also other statements which are completely misleading. Those statements take away credibility of the writer and relegate him to the level of a paid cyber-trooper.
Refreshing to find an analysis that tries to look at the bigger picture and the context. I would have liked to have seen a chronological context added in here too because then the political thrust of the various attacks against Wat Phra Dhammakaya over the years becomes clearer and how these latest charges are just a case of fabricating a new angle on an already existing target. But Thailand is hopelessly divided between two religious visions, political ideologies, socio-economic groups etc. and this is just a raw exertion of power over the other.
The yellow view on this is clear. Whatever the reasons for it they believe that the temple is a threat to “their Buddhism” and that the temple represents something of the “Thaksin regime.” It is die-hard royalist yellow shirts who are managing the campaign to have the temple brought down.
I fear this confrontation is going to result in widespread violence, with end result : a very bloody anti-Prayut coup by younger officers. The closest parrallel is Chamlong Srimuang’s Santi Asoke’s involvement in May ’92. Once major Buddhist organisations start fighting, worst outcomes look real.
Here in Chachoengsao it is very common street-talk that Wat Sothon Wararam is next. It’s difficult (for me) to find any substance beneath the talk, but it appears to be generally understood through the PT/red lens.
Prayuth is over reaching. As easy as he put on the mantle of minister what did he think he will do with a monk without the possibility of DE-robbing !!
Suspect his intents are more devious than seeking justice.
Dammakaya has now become a test of how far Prayut can push the LM laws, for his own advantage, now that His Majesty the new King has endorsed Dammachayo’s defrocking, and demotion. So Prayut is not only pushing his self-serving Article 44 dictator powers.
Why not donate the UN $$$$$ to infrastructure improvement in Yakhine?
Instead of wasting useless careless repetition to score “White Knight” points worst risk making COI to OIC just like previously while making this military government look good.
BTW the depicted picture can describe half of Yagon residents living condition. can you hear them now?
It is dismaying but not surprising that people like Greg Balkin attacks the messenger than the message in the first instance. it is disgusting, cowrdly and the hallmark of a serious lack of manners. If Balkin were to lve long enough in Malaysia he should soon realise that even Malaysians have to live or deal with bald-faced lies of the ruling regime. Bhatia is right: Malaysia’s statistics are indeed rubbery, indeed cannot be believed. Why? As Bhatia and others have argued, there is absolutely no systemic transparency in Malaysia. It is an illiberal regime that has practiced since 1970 government without responsibility and accountability. Even Malaysia’s central bank’s numbers cannot be believed as it has turned a blind eye to several major financial scandals over the decades. Which is why investment banks research is often used by journalists; they are more credible than the regime.
Fact is Bhatia did offer statistics and if Balkin wants to come stay in Malaysia for six months, he will see and feel that the economic woes Bhatia has argued.
Probem with the likes of Balkin is that they are crude positivists who squat ivn their first world lofty lofts without any real understanding of the perverse contradictions and realities of country’s like Malaysia.
On Najib’s critics unable to pare him back, Balkin must enjoy stating the obvious, mouthing off truisms. He could read Bhatia on the structursl weaknesses of the opposition in Malaysia.
It is dismaying but not surprising that people like Greg Balkin attacks the messenger than the message in the first instance. it is disgusting, cowrdly and the hallmark of a serious lack of manners. If Balkin were to lve long enough in Malaysia he should soon realise that even Malaysians have to live or deal with bald-faced lies of the ruling regime. Bhatia is right: Malaysia’s statistics are indeed rubbery, indeed cannot be believed. Why? As Bhatia and others have argued, there is absolutely no systemic transparency in Malaysia. It is an illiberal regime that has practiced since 1970 government without responsibility and accountability. Even Malaysia’s central bank’s numbers cannot be believed as it has turned a blind eye to several major financial scandals over the decades. Which is why investment banks research is often used by journalists; they are more credible than the regime.
Fact is Bhatia did offer statistics and if Balkin wants to come stay in Malaysia for six months, he will see and feel that the economic woes Bhatia has argued.
Probem with the likes of Balkin is that they are crude positivists who squat ivn their first world lofty lofts without any real understanding of the perverse contradictions and realities of country’s like Malaysia.
On Najib’s critics unable to pare him back, Balkin must enjoy stating the obvious, mouthing off truisms. He could read Bhatia on the structursl weaknesses of the opposition in Malaysia.
Zahid Hamidi runs Malaysia now and NOT Najib Razak who is a mere puppet. Any analysis of Malaysia must start with an accurate understandin of the nation.
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Private: Grieving as Thainess in 2017
Thank you for sharing that John, very interesting and enjoyable listen.
The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
A fine article very illuminating for the non-initiated and with the largely civilized comments, which provide more detail and nuance, really contribute to this stimulting intellectual exchange. One missing element in the article is the role/position of the new king and the larger royal household in this affair. Chris Beale and John Smith provide some light on this subject. My hypothesis would be that the weakening of an alternative source of authority would not only be beneficial to a somewhat paranoid military junta but also for King Vajiralongkorn himself who, it would seem, is not yet “steady on the throne”.
The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
Traditionally, only a quorum of monks can defrock other monks and only for a very limited range of offenses. Vajiralongkorn could theoretically seize this power for himself in concert with corrupt monks like Dhiradhammo but this would have serious long term consequences.
Japan is known as a place of many temples, but no monks. When the Meiji government bowed to pressure from a group of failed monks and permitted marriage and the privatisation of temple property, Japanese Buddhism collapsed.
I remember a Buddhist conference where a group of Japanese priests were seated among the laypeople rather than the monks, on the grounds that they were really just lay Buddhist funeral directors. The Japanese delegation was very upset but all the other Buddhist delegations were united against them.
In Tibet the Chinese Communists have tried to replace revered lamas with party officials in costume, but nobody believes in them or respects them.
I pray that a similar fate does not befall Thailand.
Malaysia’s criminal state of mind
I have no argument with Bhatia’s point (the message), nor do I have a problem with the messenger. However, perhaps in his eagerness to bolster his viewpoint, he is definitely slanting the interpretation of the data and damaging his own credibility.
I would certainly dispute the characterisation of Malaysia’s official statistics as “rubbery”.
I’d also like to know which investment banks are questioning official Malaysian data, because I know nearly all the bank economists (local and international) covering Malaysia, and I’ve never heard of this before. This isn’t to say there are no problems with Malaysian official statistics, but most of these relate to coverage and methodological issues, not fraud.
In any case, I’ve written and submitted a rebuttal to the way data was used in this article. I’d also welcome a chance to engage with Mr Bhatia directly, if anyone cares to provide a contact address.
Women workers in Thailand’s caring economy
Superb article – giving voice to those too often neglected. There’s an old Thai saying : “women are the hind legs of the elephant”. Well the rest of Thai society had better watch out – and make way – when those hind legs start moving.
Malaysia’s criminal state of mind
Kundirikan’s comments have proved very prescient : Malaysia is now very much a friend of the US, given how North Korea has locked Malaysia into what may well be a five year – at best – stand off over their respective embassy sieges.
Malaysia’s criminal state of mind
You must be kidding…..Najib calls the shots-he was well groomed by his father and an experienced politician. Do believe what the government puts out for consumption.
Malaysia’s criminal state of mind
I agree with Greg on most points – a so called serious researcher should check their facts and not twist matters with intend to mislead.
Making statements like the Chinese insist on 99 year leases is complete and utter bull. For commercial transfer, land in malaysia are either ‘freehold” or 99 years lease. Ther is no such thing as insisting… There are also other statements which are completely misleading. Those statements take away credibility of the writer and relegate him to the level of a paid cyber-trooper.
The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
Refreshing to find an analysis that tries to look at the bigger picture and the context. I would have liked to have seen a chronological context added in here too because then the political thrust of the various attacks against Wat Phra Dhammakaya over the years becomes clearer and how these latest charges are just a case of fabricating a new angle on an already existing target. But Thailand is hopelessly divided between two religious visions, political ideologies, socio-economic groups etc. and this is just a raw exertion of power over the other.
The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
The yellow view on this is clear. Whatever the reasons for it they believe that the temple is a threat to “their Buddhism” and that the temple represents something of the “Thaksin regime.” It is die-hard royalist yellow shirts who are managing the campaign to have the temple brought down.
The Bangkok Post files all its stories on the sect under “crime.” Then yesterday it reports “Scholars urge Buddhism body to defrock ex-abbot” (http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/crime/1209865/scholars-urge-buddhism-body-to-defrock-ex-abbot). So who are the “scholars”? None other than “Buddhism lecturer” Mano Laohavanich, who is a former disciple at Wat Dhammakaya, and who has been waging a public war against it, and Santisuk Sophonsiri, who is not only well-known as a Buddhist campaigner but a spouse of yellow shirt stalwart Rosana Tositrakul (https://www.pressreader.com/thailand/the-nation/20081008/281809984715843). Both promote a different middle-class Buddhism (http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=52,4003,0,0,1,0#.WL9chX8da_5).
The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
I fear this confrontation is going to result in widespread violence, with end result : a very bloody anti-Prayut coup by younger officers. The closest parrallel is Chamlong Srimuang’s Santi Asoke’s involvement in May ’92. Once major Buddhist organisations start fighting, worst outcomes look real.
The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
Here in Chachoengsao it is very common street-talk that Wat Sothon Wararam is next. It’s difficult (for me) to find any substance beneath the talk, but it appears to be generally understood through the PT/red lens.
The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
Prayuth is over reaching. As easy as he put on the mantle of minister what did he think he will do with a monk without the possibility of DE-robbing !!
Suspect his intents are more devious than seeking justice.
Malaysia’s criminal state of mind
Peter Cohen, thanks for that information. You may well be correct. But what evidence have you got for such a claim ?
The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
Dammakaya has now become a test of how far Prayut can push the LM laws, for his own advantage, now that His Majesty the new King has endorsed Dammachayo’s defrocking, and demotion. So Prayut is not only pushing his self-serving Article 44 dictator powers.
A turning point in the Rohingya crisis
Hey Tocharian
Why not donate the UN $$$$$ to infrastructure improvement in Yakhine?
Instead of wasting useless careless repetition to score “White Knight” points worst risk making COI to OIC just like previously while making this military government look good.
BTW the depicted picture can describe half of Yagon residents living condition. can you hear them now?
Malaysia’s criminal state of mind
It is dismaying but not surprising that people like Greg Balkin attacks the messenger than the message in the first instance. it is disgusting, cowrdly and the hallmark of a serious lack of manners. If Balkin were to lve long enough in Malaysia he should soon realise that even Malaysians have to live or deal with bald-faced lies of the ruling regime. Bhatia is right: Malaysia’s statistics are indeed rubbery, indeed cannot be believed. Why? As Bhatia and others have argued, there is absolutely no systemic transparency in Malaysia. It is an illiberal regime that has practiced since 1970 government without responsibility and accountability. Even Malaysia’s central bank’s numbers cannot be believed as it has turned a blind eye to several major financial scandals over the decades. Which is why investment banks research is often used by journalists; they are more credible than the regime.
Fact is Bhatia did offer statistics and if Balkin wants to come stay in Malaysia for six months, he will see and feel that the economic woes Bhatia has argued.
Probem with the likes of Balkin is that they are crude positivists who squat ivn their first world lofty lofts without any real understanding of the perverse contradictions and realities of country’s like Malaysia.
On Najib’s critics unable to pare him back, Balkin must enjoy stating the obvious, mouthing off truisms. He could read Bhatia on the structursl weaknesses of the opposition in Malaysia.
Malaysia’s criminal state of mind
It is dismaying but not surprising that people like Greg Balkin attacks the messenger than the message in the first instance. it is disgusting, cowrdly and the hallmark of a serious lack of manners. If Balkin were to lve long enough in Malaysia he should soon realise that even Malaysians have to live or deal with bald-faced lies of the ruling regime. Bhatia is right: Malaysia’s statistics are indeed rubbery, indeed cannot be believed. Why? As Bhatia and others have argued, there is absolutely no systemic transparency in Malaysia. It is an illiberal regime that has practiced since 1970 government without responsibility and accountability. Even Malaysia’s central bank’s numbers cannot be believed as it has turned a blind eye to several major financial scandals over the decades. Which is why investment banks research is often used by journalists; they are more credible than the regime.
Fact is Bhatia did offer statistics and if Balkin wants to come stay in Malaysia for six months, he will see and feel that the economic woes Bhatia has argued.
Probem with the likes of Balkin is that they are crude positivists who squat ivn their first world lofty lofts without any real understanding of the perverse contradictions and realities of country’s like Malaysia.
On Najib’s critics unable to pare him back, Balkin must enjoy stating the obvious, mouthing off truisms. He could read Bhatia on the structursl weaknesses of the opposition in Malaysia.
Malaysia’s criminal state of mind
Zahid Hamidi runs Malaysia now and NOT Najib Razak who is a mere puppet. Any analysis of Malaysia must start with an accurate understandin of the nation.
The perplexing case of Wat Dhammakaya
Thank you Jim T for the analysis. It is hard to distinguish religion, politic and money at the moment