This is no uneasy alliance at all. It is a crude and conspicuous alliance to curry favour with all the right Islamic elements to show one’s devotion to faith and (internal) jihad. Handing out free samples of Zam-Zam water wouldn’t hurt either. Prabowo wants to ensure his credibility with the Islamists, and a place in paradise, when that time comes. Never mind, whether his past military adventures and human rights issues, are all Halal. That’s OK, WE will just let Allah decide those aspects of Prabowo, as no mere mortal can judge the stain of blood on one’s hands (the “Cast the First Stone” thing), right ?
Perhaps more art and discussion can be devoted to the PETA/Pembelah Tanah Air (Kyodo Boei Giyugun) and the role that Soedirman, Soekarno, Soeharto and many independence-period “nationalists” played in collaborating with a Japanese Occupying Army in Indonesia (60,000 Indonesian volunteers in total: 40,000 in Java and about 20,000 in Sumatra). While small in number, almost all the critical Indonesian historical figures, that were later to lead independent Indonesia, were members of the PTA, which I might point out, incarcerated British, Dutch, Eurasian and Indonesian individuals, in prisoner-of-war camps (which were known to Soedirman, Soeharto and Soekarno). After the war, President Soekarno decided not to include the
PTA in the fledgling Indonesian Armed Forces,
because HE FEARED ALLEGATIONS OF COLLABORATION with the Japanese Army, which in fact, tortured, starved and killed, many
Westerners and Indonesians (among others in Asia). By virtue of his involvement in PTA, not only Soekarno, but Soedirman, Soeharto and others, were collaborators with the Japanese, and can no more claim ignorance of war crimes, that can the Poles or the French in 1944. The difference is that the Poles and the French have has some national discussion regarding their accessory to war crimes; the Indonesians have not. They prefer statues, drawings and painting of tall, regal, macho leaders, in military uniform or traditional dress, equipped with a songkok or a local head covering, and all displaying a golden keris, appropriately arrayed in front, to demonstrate resolve and bravery. When addressing the question of “What is the quality of mercy” ?, perhaps Indonesians, as much as they are weighing which candidate to choose for President today, may also reflect on the real history of their pantheon of great historical figures, and ask, “What did they do to further humanity when given the opportunity, and what did they choose not to do”. The well-spring for Indonesia’s nascent democracy, is to be found in that open dialogue, and not masking it with fake hanging nooses, which in fact are not mere metaphors, but actual manifestations of how some people were killed in Indonesia, 70 years ago. We all like to celebrate the best in our nation and in ourselves, but as the Germans discovered perhaps a bit late, that just was not good enough.
You forgot the Suras about Ahli al-Kitab, hiding behind Qarkad trees and stones, and
purported ancestral lineages from monkeys
and Sus scrofa. I guess the “bad” Suras are ignored, as they lead neither to good luck or good interfaith relations. What are the odds that the winner will declare divine intervention ?
With the Military / Democrats / Yellow? trinity, Majority of Thais means people living in Bangkok and its vicinity. The rest of Thailand are “Farmers” Being farmers and not real Thais, they do no count.
[…] Papuan students take part on a rally in Surabaya, East Java province, demanding the freedom of West Papua province. Photo by AFP. For Papuans, it's not a question of who to vote for in Indonesia's presidential elections, but … […]
I didn’t know that there are so many shades of “Kalars”
Well then maybe the friendly “paukphaws” Chinese will take care of these pesky Muslims extremists to help out their cultural cousins the Mianmese.
Sun-Tzu “Art of War”
The Americans screwed it up in Iraq and Afghanistan so it’s now the new Hegemon’s turn to tackle these problems in the Middle East where they get the oil. ISIS vs PLA?
The Chinese are there like everywhere else through out history for the economic opportunities. They have no qualm about becoming Buddhist and Buddhism embraces almost all Chinese Deities. Neither does the Hindu the Sikh nor the Muslim in Maymyo collectively ‘the other Kalas”.
Does it call into question why only certain of the Muslin Kala are easy pick and why?
Is it because Muslims or Islam believers are monolithic and thus absolutely intolerant of others, and even small differences among themselves as in the ongoing senseless killings in the Middle East?
1.This piece appeared elsewhere too. I appreciate that The Nation changed ‘farang’ to ‘foreigner.’
2.Between ‘East’ and ‘West’: Come on! Call it simply pragmatic or whatever, but what should these terms signify other than fuzzy geographical areas in this context? This comes from Social ‘Scientists’?
3.‘Rigid norms’: This is a pleonasm. The authors might mean ideologically grounded norms, or something similar.
4.‘Restores a form of democratic governance that suits the majority of Thais, whatever that may be.’ — Here we have the main message: Change the ‘democratic’ system so it ‘suits’ the majority of Thais. I wonder who that majority is, and who defines ‘suitability.’ Normally, such a change would be done within the framework of a constitution, but now? Indeed, a ‘quick fix!’
5.Education, as the authors demonstrate, is a worry for both: The ‘West’ and Thailand. If this is the level of analysis taught at colleges in Thailand, I only can recommend reading independently, instead of relying on academic institutions and their teachers. You can’t just quote general economic figures in order to whitewash political maneuvers.
6.I just do not know what the Arab Spring has to do with Thailand’s recent coup, other than that both have been political events. Such comparisons are only useful if one can demonstrate certain political and socioeconomic ‘universals’ that are in place in both scenarios, which the authors clearly fail to uncover. So what’s the point of throwing all this in?
I did read Hla Oo’s blog more carefully today and he has a lot of other stories with graphic pictures about Muslims in other countries, such as Australia, UK, Sweden etc. as well. Australia is a free country so he can say whatever he wants, but why should everyone believe in everything he puts up on his blog? I am not that gullible!
If it’s all true what he is saying then Thein Sein or even Suu Kyi should make a strong public statement with solid evidence about these Muslim atrocities and make sure that the “other side” of the story is represented fairly. Why leave such an important task to some one like Hal Oo? Why doesn’t someone from the Burmese embassy write an article in NM to clarify the situation. Why didn’t Suu Kyi talk about these things when she was at the ANU collecting a doctorate? If you sweep every unpleasant thing under the carpet and people with responsibilities (not me) do not dare to bring things out openly, then people will start relying on rumours and blogs. That’s all I’m saying
Do you mean that the Muslims should own the other half of Mandalay? Would that be ” an anathema”?
More seriously, the Chinese have enough problems with Muslim Uyghurs in their own country and China needs oil from the Middle East so on the global scale of things it’s not about a handful of Muslims in Mandalay “emulating” the Chinese. I predict that there will be a more global struggle between Chinese business interests and the Muslim fundamentalists. I am fully aware that most Burmese for many different reasons will be on the side of the Chinese. No surprise there.
Thought you were the first to mention Godwin’s Law on these pages. Perhaps not.
Those guys all tell a good yarn and unfortunately you don’t. All the more unfortunate since snake oil sellers will continue to walk the earth unlike the dinosaurs.
They are saving the tinderbox that is anti-Chinese resentment in Mandalay for a rainy day. Our friend tocharian will rejoice when not if the time arrives perhaps not soon enough for him but just the right timing for the hidden hand.
Umm.. Although those Bupati-s may still pay in rupiah in the local market, the price of a piece of tahu is pretty much depending on the USD as Indo imported many key staples such as soy, rice and oil among others. Weaker rupiah means a hike in price (contributed by multiple factors with high interdependency to USD) that shall affect the buying power of those being paid in rupiah. 6 juta today might not buy as much tahu as 6 juta tomorrow. Appreciated Rp or depreciated Rp doesnt mean much if the country is still pretty much relying on imports on staples.
The post-electoral situation could be as unpredictable as the result itself now appears to be. The Indonesian press is reporting that the PDIP will no longer have an automatic claim on the DPR speakership, despite having topped the parliamentary polls in April.
The speaker will instead be elected by the DPR members. The PDIP and PKB staged a walk-out in protest. This is an example of the problems that President Jokowi, if he wins, will face if he doesn’t secure a parliamentary majority.
“In February, I was hearing 20-minute rants about the history of the Laos and how they were repressed – how [the Thais] came up on horses and put chains around our necks and dragged us away,’” says Streckfuss. This newfound pride wasn’t about identifying with fellow Lao people across the Mekong, he adds, “it was anti-Bangkok.”
As Vientiane develops in the coming years with Chinese capital (and Chinese population) I wonder how long it will be before Isaan starts turning towards Vientiane again (after 200 years) as the economic and cultural capital of the region.
In any Western Country these “rumor” would have been relegated to the authority of the Law.
With the still corrupt authority always favoring the highest payer, these sectarian violence will require local vigilance as during the 60″s manufactured Ne Win anti Chinese riots, that prevent neighbors as victims.
In Mandalay there is an undercurrent of anti Chinese sentiment. Yet there are no incidence to this day.
May be the Chinese who own half of the wealth can be emulated by the Muslim. Will that will be an anathema?
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Uneasy alliance: Prabowo and the Islamic parties
This is no uneasy alliance at all. It is a crude and conspicuous alliance to curry favour with all the right Islamic elements to show one’s devotion to faith and (internal) jihad. Handing out free samples of Zam-Zam water wouldn’t hurt either. Prabowo wants to ensure his credibility with the Islamists, and a place in paradise, when that time comes. Never mind, whether his past military adventures and human rights issues, are all Halal. That’s OK, WE will just let Allah decide those aspects of Prabowo, as no mere mortal can judge the stain of blood on one’s hands (the “Cast the First Stone” thing), right ?
Art and elections
Perhaps more art and discussion can be devoted to the PETA/Pembelah Tanah Air (Kyodo Boei Giyugun) and the role that Soedirman, Soekarno, Soeharto and many independence-period “nationalists” played in collaborating with a Japanese Occupying Army in Indonesia (60,000 Indonesian volunteers in total: 40,000 in Java and about 20,000 in Sumatra). While small in number, almost all the critical Indonesian historical figures, that were later to lead independent Indonesia, were members of the PTA, which I might point out, incarcerated British, Dutch, Eurasian and Indonesian individuals, in prisoner-of-war camps (which were known to Soedirman, Soeharto and Soekarno). After the war, President Soekarno decided not to include the
PTA in the fledgling Indonesian Armed Forces,
because HE FEARED ALLEGATIONS OF COLLABORATION with the Japanese Army, which in fact, tortured, starved and killed, many
Westerners and Indonesians (among others in Asia). By virtue of his involvement in PTA, not only Soekarno, but Soedirman, Soeharto and others, were collaborators with the Japanese, and can no more claim ignorance of war crimes, that can the Poles or the French in 1944. The difference is that the Poles and the French have has some national discussion regarding their accessory to war crimes; the Indonesians have not. They prefer statues, drawings and painting of tall, regal, macho leaders, in military uniform or traditional dress, equipped with a songkok or a local head covering, and all displaying a golden keris, appropriately arrayed in front, to demonstrate resolve and bravery. When addressing the question of “What is the quality of mercy” ?, perhaps Indonesians, as much as they are weighing which candidate to choose for President today, may also reflect on the real history of their pantheon of great historical figures, and ask, “What did they do to further humanity when given the opportunity, and what did they choose not to do”. The well-spring for Indonesia’s nascent democracy, is to be found in that open dialogue, and not masking it with fake hanging nooses, which in fact are not mere metaphors, but actual manifestations of how some people were killed in Indonesia, 70 years ago. We all like to celebrate the best in our nation and in ourselves, but as the Germans discovered perhaps a bit late, that just was not good enough.
Let God decide
You forgot the Suras about Ahli al-Kitab, hiding behind Qarkad trees and stones, and
purported ancestral lineages from monkeys
and Sus scrofa. I guess the “bad” Suras are ignored, as they lead neither to good luck or good interfaith relations. What are the odds that the winner will declare divine intervention ?
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
With the Military / Democrats / Yellow? trinity, Majority of Thais means people living in Bangkok and its vicinity. The rest of Thailand are “Farmers” Being farmers and not real Thais, they do no count.
Presidential elections in Papua
[…] Papuan students take part on a rally in Surabaya, East Java province, demanding the freedom of West Papua province. Photo by AFP. For Papuans, it's not a question of who to vote for in Indonesia's presidential elections, but … […]
Bring on the ballot
It seems like this could have been a useful comment with a bit of context and an explanation of the acronyms.
As it is reads like a bit of a riddle.
Anyone able to explain?
Rumour, religion and riots in Mandalay
I didn’t know that there are so many shades of “Kalars”
Well then maybe the friendly “paukphaws” Chinese will take care of these pesky Muslims extremists to help out their cultural cousins the Mianmese.
Sun-Tzu “Art of War”
The Americans screwed it up in Iraq and Afghanistan so it’s now the new Hegemon’s turn to tackle these problems in the Middle East where they get the oil. ISIS vs PLA?
Bring on the ballot
Navel-gazing… The academics on this site made a conscious choice to be cheerleaders rather than objective observers.
Rumour, religion and riots in Mandalay
The Chinese are there like everywhere else through out history for the economic opportunities. They have no qualm about becoming Buddhist and Buddhism embraces almost all Chinese Deities. Neither does the Hindu the Sikh nor the Muslim in Maymyo collectively ‘the other Kalas”.
Does it call into question why only certain of the Muslin Kala are easy pick and why?
Is it because Muslims or Islam believers are monolithic and thus absolutely intolerant of others, and even small differences among themselves as in the ongoing senseless killings in the Middle East?
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
1.This piece appeared elsewhere too. I appreciate that The Nation changed ‘farang’ to ‘foreigner.’
2.Between ‘East’ and ‘West’: Come on! Call it simply pragmatic or whatever, but what should these terms signify other than fuzzy geographical areas in this context? This comes from Social ‘Scientists’?
3.‘Rigid norms’: This is a pleonasm. The authors might mean ideologically grounded norms, or something similar.
4.‘Restores a form of democratic governance that suits the majority of Thais, whatever that may be.’ — Here we have the main message: Change the ‘democratic’ system so it ‘suits’ the majority of Thais. I wonder who that majority is, and who defines ‘suitability.’ Normally, such a change would be done within the framework of a constitution, but now? Indeed, a ‘quick fix!’
5.Education, as the authors demonstrate, is a worry for both: The ‘West’ and Thailand. If this is the level of analysis taught at colleges in Thailand, I only can recommend reading independently, instead of relying on academic institutions and their teachers. You can’t just quote general economic figures in order to whitewash political maneuvers.
6.I just do not know what the Arab Spring has to do with Thailand’s recent coup, other than that both have been political events. Such comparisons are only useful if one can demonstrate certain political and socioeconomic ‘universals’ that are in place in both scenarios, which the authors clearly fail to uncover. So what’s the point of throwing all this in?
Rumour, religion and riots in Mandalay
I did read Hla Oo’s blog more carefully today and he has a lot of other stories with graphic pictures about Muslims in other countries, such as Australia, UK, Sweden etc. as well. Australia is a free country so he can say whatever he wants, but why should everyone believe in everything he puts up on his blog? I am not that gullible!
If it’s all true what he is saying then Thein Sein or even Suu Kyi should make a strong public statement with solid evidence about these Muslim atrocities and make sure that the “other side” of the story is represented fairly. Why leave such an important task to some one like Hal Oo? Why doesn’t someone from the Burmese embassy write an article in NM to clarify the situation. Why didn’t Suu Kyi talk about these things when she was at the ANU collecting a doctorate? If you sweep every unpleasant thing under the carpet and people with responsibilities (not me) do not dare to bring things out openly, then people will start relying on rumours and blogs. That’s all I’m saying
Rumour, religion and riots in Mandalay
Do you mean that the Muslims should own the other half of Mandalay? Would that be ” an anathema”?
More seriously, the Chinese have enough problems with Muslim Uyghurs in their own country and China needs oil from the Middle East so on the global scale of things it’s not about a handful of Muslims in Mandalay “emulating” the Chinese. I predict that there will be a more global struggle between Chinese business interests and the Muslim fundamentalists. I am fully aware that most Burmese for many different reasons will be on the side of the Chinese. No surprise there.
Rumour, religion and riots in Mandalay
Thought you were the first to mention Godwin’s Law on these pages. Perhaps not.
Those guys all tell a good yarn and unfortunately you don’t. All the more unfortunate since snake oil sellers will continue to walk the earth unlike the dinosaurs.
Bring on the ballot
Thank you for this great blog. Helped me a lot to better understand the situation in Indonesia!
Rumour, religion and riots in Mandalay
They are saving the tinderbox that is anti-Chinese resentment in Mandalay for a rainy day. Our friend tocharian will rejoice when not if the time arrives perhaps not soon enough for him but just the right timing for the hidden hand.
Anti-democratic? Prabowo’s response
Umm.. Although those Bupati-s may still pay in rupiah in the local market, the price of a piece of tahu is pretty much depending on the USD as Indo imported many key staples such as soy, rice and oil among others. Weaker rupiah means a hike in price (contributed by multiple factors with high interdependency to USD) that shall affect the buying power of those being paid in rupiah. 6 juta today might not buy as much tahu as 6 juta tomorrow. Appreciated Rp or depreciated Rp doesnt mean much if the country is still pretty much relying on imports on staples.
Bring on the ballot
The post-electoral situation could be as unpredictable as the result itself now appears to be. The Indonesian press is reporting that the PDIP will no longer have an automatic claim on the DPR speakership, despite having topped the parliamentary polls in April.
The speaker will instead be elected by the DPR members. The PDIP and PKB staged a walk-out in protest. This is an example of the problems that President Jokowi, if he wins, will face if he doesn’t secure a parliamentary majority.
Thailand’s coup: same same but different?
http://time.com/2948172/thailand-isaan-province-identity/
As Vientiane develops in the coming years with Chinese capital (and Chinese population) I wonder how long it will be before Isaan starts turning towards Vientiane again (after 200 years) as the economic and cultural capital of the region.
Rumour, religion and riots in Mandalay
Well said Ko Moe Aung.
In any Western Country these “rumor” would have been relegated to the authority of the Law.
With the still corrupt authority always favoring the highest payer, these sectarian violence will require local vigilance as during the 60″s manufactured Ne Win anti Chinese riots, that prevent neighbors as victims.
In Mandalay there is an undercurrent of anti Chinese sentiment. Yet there are no incidence to this day.
May be the Chinese who own half of the wealth can be emulated by the Muslim. Will that will be an anathema?
Jangan tertipu – Prabowo (masih) ingin menghapus pemilihan presiden secara langsung
kenapa anda pada gusar ya ,,,,,,,,,
pada ketakutan…ya jika prabowo menang..!!!!
kan demokrasi…itu semua tergantung politiknya saja