Hey Steve, as you know we are currently transitioning between Editors and during this period of transition, I am assisting the website in uploading some submissions. This has been a learning curve for me as well given I am the newest member involved in NM. The reason this name slip-up may have occurred is because I accidentally published the article first without selecting the author profile, for which I apologise to Joshua, and promptly changed within the next ten minutes. I wasn’t aware the email digest would attribute it to the original name on the article, thank you for pointing this out and if any concerns arise from this I’ll make sure to address them (although given I am an undergraduate with no real reputation I hope most people can assume there was a mix-up)
To falang, or maybe ฝรั่ง “farang” which besides a semi derogatory word for white person of European descent also means guava fruit.
I am happy to discuss this topic.
First off, Wat Phra Dhammakaya is a big place. Is there controversy? Sure. People are fallible. In Wat Phra Dhammakaya and the Dhammakaya Foundation – which is an NGO – there is a brigade of people that help to manage the projects, logistics, and affairs. Just like any regular and well-governed institution or organization. Although Phra Dhammajayo is the head, there are thousands of people in the organization.
I was in direct contact with some of the monastic personnel while the temple was under siege. It is important to note that what the Thai and International media present to the world is their story, with heir agenda, and their story of what they want to make the public believe. Is Wat Phra Dhammakaya perfect? No. But, in this case they are being persecuted and condemned to be guilty before proven innocent, when there is more than enough evidence to show that Phra Dhammajayo and the temple are innocent.
Every search throughout the temple’s vast compounds that the military police requested were properly and legally followed, with full cooperation from the temple and foundation’s staff. That is well documented. The police were were lead and guided by the staff to search wherever they wanted.
The point is that nobody knows where Phra Dhammajayo is. So it’s not the staff and personel’s fault that the police did not find Phra Dhammajayo. The general public have no idea where he is. Why would they? He is likely being protected by a small inner circle because of the injustice and corruption surrounding this case. Wouldn’t you want to help one of your loved ones if you knew, beyond any shadow of a doubt that that person is innocent. And if caught would likely die as a result, due to their very poor health?
It is unfair then to use “Dhammajayo’s Bed not meant to deceive”. There are parts of Thai culture and hidden messages that are meant to be sent to people. I personally don’t believe that Phra Dhammajayo ordered the towels and bed to be made up like that. It’s not his style. And likely came from one of the staff under him to exemplify a “smoke and dagger” tactic used by the Thai government in this case. But that is just speculation on my part and limited as such.
It very well may have been a message that “things are not what they seem”. What appears to be, is not what it really is. And not referring to Phra Dhammajayo being guilty, but rather, innocent and the victim of a manhunt.
That is well said, and a clear wholistic description of the tip of the iceberg. A similar situation has happened to other monks in Thailand in the past who knowingly or unknowingly challenged the “authority’s” motives and paradigm.
To Tim Robinson,
It is a good supplement indeed! And very true about attempts to fight for democracy.
With regard, it is apparent that you don’t know the story here as the monk pictured on the top is the ‘notorious’ former Abbot Phra Dhammajayo.
The whole point of writing the piece was to begin to show another side to the story the commercial media and news outlets are not sharing, or being controlled not to share. The very fact that you think the Abbot is a criminal and a cult leader is from reading about it, being conditioned by the media to believe that, not ever having met and talked to him personally or been to the temple and seen what happens there and why they happen – what’s the motivation behind it – both the good and the more difficult to culturally understand / e.g. not so good.
Also, the title should read: “The Irony of Integrity”.
Thanks for reading and initiating discussion. There’s a lot to talk about here.
We are talking about a notorious criminally defrocked abbot who had fleeced and conned unwary followers of their life savings plus financial scandals aplenty.
This is the way a feudal hierarchy reacts to any challenge. As soon as a hump starts to develop on the side of the pyramid of power, the hierarchy swings into action to smooth it out. Dhammajayo was at the head of one of those humps. The classic method of smoothing out humps is by pretending there are rules that have been broken. There are, indeed, pseudo-rules, which powerful people are allowed to break, but those deeds will be held against them only if they get too big for their boots. The lawless system for the powerful is an essential part of feudal society. It is their privilege, so long as they don’t poke their heads up above those who have the means to crush them.
Feudalism does involve high culture (which fundamentalist capitalism does not), but just beneath the surface is the same naked power structure that one finds in a pack of wild dogs. Civilised outsiders are still waiting for high-status Thais to behave less like dogs and to shift to a genuine rules-based culture.
Dammajayo was thrust up on a financial bubble of rich-men’s meritmaking that got out of control. His head poked up too high, and he is being dealt with in the same way as Cardinal Wolsey or Thaksin Shinawat.
well i dont know if you should expect them to “fight for democracy”. If they do theyll be called political and dogged with more random allegations. plus the anti-democracy faction already dislikes the temple and that would just make the tensions worse.
The email version of this jumble of nonsense attributed it to Mish Khan, whose work I’ve enjoyed in the past. I was going to ask if she is now on the Dhammakaya payroll (they pay well for this sort of thing) and somehow misplaced her English skills. But on the NM site it’s attributed to Joshua Jayintoh. Releived.
With respect, it isn’t for the temple’s followers to decide whether the Abbot is innocent. That has to be for the courts to decide.
Are the courts fair? Probably not. But then could not everybody facing charges use that defence? You have to deal with what’s in front of you rather than hat you’d like to be in front of you.
I don’t want to sound like an apologist for the junta, but if the monks and their supporters hadn’t prevented the army from entering the temple then the siege would not have been necessary and lives and injuries would have been spared.
So when the elections were blocked by the junta, and Suthep’s strong-arm men were causing public mayhem, and Bhudda Issara was running his kangaroo courts, where were Luang Por Dhammajayo and his followers? Correct me if I am wrong but, I don’t seem to recall them fighting for democracy at that time. And there are serious questions concerning this sect that requires some answers.
It does matter, I think. If one concerns the roots of Acehnese conflict and the background of the peace agreement in 2005, one will understand how crucial it is to know who win and lose the Aceh election. The security and peace in the region will highly depend on who govern Aceh and what is the role of GAM ex-combatants in the society after peace.
Meanwhile, sharia law is another story. Although it also depends on who hold the power in the government. For example, when Irwandi was still the governor in 2009, he refused to sign the qanun jinayah (Islamic criminal code bylaw) due to some provisions in it which are not suitable to human rights values.
Aung San Suu Kyi and her top down leadership (of the NLD party), has been a huge disappointment for the millions of Burmese who are still mired in extreme poverty, illiteracy, suppression by the military generals who still run the show and call the shots behind the scenes.
I’m appalled, as is the world, of the ethnic cleansing that has taken place in Rakhine State, despite repeated denials and silence on her part from confronting and speaking out against what has transpired. Myanmar being a devout Buddhist country, yet the atrocities done to the Rohingya people in Rakhine by the military has been shocking, despite their attempts to cover up the pillaging, rape, murder and burning of whole villages. Not to mention the radical and hardline Buddhists, led by Wirathu, who has relentlessly spearheaded the anti-muslim movement, to drive the millions of muslims out of Myanmar.
She reminds me of the “Stockholm” syndrome and it’s becoming evident that she was and is power hungry and not who she projected to be. History is replete w/examples that when you put someone on a pedestal, they are bound to disappoint and fall, since they too have flaws, weaknesses and shortcomings.
Ms Suu Kyi’s perceived silence on the Rohingya has severely damaged her reputation as a beacon for human rights. In hindsight, the Nobel Committee should have waited before deciding to award her the prize. This former beacon of the human rights community is now very much alienated from many of her international supporters. She is wary of the media and disdainful of her international critics, far more the steely politician than the global icon feted from capital to capital when she was released seven years ago.
The military generals have used her to get most if not all sanctions lifted and despite aid and investments that have poured in since she took office, the military continues to have full control and benefit economically in every way imaginable while the majority of the Burmese continue to suffer day by day.
The majority of Burmese people are beginning to realize that she’s not the “savior” they thought she would be. It was only a matter of time before their eyes were opened and now it has.
The tax office has been targeting businesses that are already compliant and threatening them with audit and public shaming if they do not join the amnesty. It’s another attempt at extortion.
With a mindset like that Europe undeveloped Africa and many other parts of the world. Of course, its convenient. The Melanesian people are not Indonesian. The European , American, New Zealand, Australian and South African Caucasian are the same. The latter got their independence from their own kind.
Papua was never part of Indonesia and never meant to be.
Yet again, I find myself surprisingly agreeing with Peter Cohen. The simple fact, in Aceh, is : there were more human rights – certainly for women ( hak manusia wanita) UNDER SUHARTO – than now. Australia’s Left is particularly guilty of playing into the hands of hard-line Aceh fundamentalist extremists.
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The irony of integrity
Hey Steve, as you know we are currently transitioning between Editors and during this period of transition, I am assisting the website in uploading some submissions. This has been a learning curve for me as well given I am the newest member involved in NM. The reason this name slip-up may have occurred is because I accidentally published the article first without selecting the author profile, for which I apologise to Joshua, and promptly changed within the next ten minutes. I wasn’t aware the email digest would attribute it to the original name on the article, thank you for pointing this out and if any concerns arise from this I’ll make sure to address them (although given I am an undergraduate with no real reputation I hope most people can assume there was a mix-up)
The irony of integrity
Joshua spent three years at Wat Dhammakaya and had not seen, heard or smelt anything foul or sinister during all that time . . .
The irony of integrity
To falang, or maybe ฝรั่ง “farang” which besides a semi derogatory word for white person of European descent also means guava fruit.
I am happy to discuss this topic.
First off, Wat Phra Dhammakaya is a big place. Is there controversy? Sure. People are fallible. In Wat Phra Dhammakaya and the Dhammakaya Foundation – which is an NGO – there is a brigade of people that help to manage the projects, logistics, and affairs. Just like any regular and well-governed institution or organization. Although Phra Dhammajayo is the head, there are thousands of people in the organization.
I was in direct contact with some of the monastic personnel while the temple was under siege. It is important to note that what the Thai and International media present to the world is their story, with heir agenda, and their story of what they want to make the public believe. Is Wat Phra Dhammakaya perfect? No. But, in this case they are being persecuted and condemned to be guilty before proven innocent, when there is more than enough evidence to show that Phra Dhammajayo and the temple are innocent.
Every search throughout the temple’s vast compounds that the military police requested were properly and legally followed, with full cooperation from the temple and foundation’s staff. That is well documented. The police were were lead and guided by the staff to search wherever they wanted.
The point is that nobody knows where Phra Dhammajayo is. So it’s not the staff and personel’s fault that the police did not find Phra Dhammajayo. The general public have no idea where he is. Why would they? He is likely being protected by a small inner circle because of the injustice and corruption surrounding this case. Wouldn’t you want to help one of your loved ones if you knew, beyond any shadow of a doubt that that person is innocent. And if caught would likely die as a result, due to their very poor health?
It is unfair then to use “Dhammajayo’s Bed not meant to deceive”. There are parts of Thai culture and hidden messages that are meant to be sent to people. I personally don’t believe that Phra Dhammajayo ordered the towels and bed to be made up like that. It’s not his style. And likely came from one of the staff under him to exemplify a “smoke and dagger” tactic used by the Thai government in this case. But that is just speculation on my part and limited as such.
It very well may have been a message that “things are not what they seem”. What appears to be, is not what it really is. And not referring to Phra Dhammajayo being guilty, but rather, innocent and the victim of a manhunt.
The irony of integrity
To R.N. England,
That is well said, and a clear wholistic description of the tip of the iceberg. A similar situation has happened to other monks in Thailand in the past who knowingly or unknowingly challenged the “authority’s” motives and paradigm.
To Tim Robinson,
It is a good supplement indeed! And very true about attempts to fight for democracy.
The irony of integrity
Tuck.
With regard, it is apparent that you don’t know the story here as the monk pictured on the top is the ‘notorious’ former Abbot Phra Dhammajayo.
The whole point of writing the piece was to begin to show another side to the story the commercial media and news outlets are not sharing, or being controlled not to share. The very fact that you think the Abbot is a criminal and a cult leader is from reading about it, being conditioned by the media to believe that, not ever having met and talked to him personally or been to the temple and seen what happens there and why they happen – what’s the motivation behind it – both the good and the more difficult to culturally understand / e.g. not so good.
Also, the title should read: “The Irony of Integrity”.
Thanks for reading and initiating discussion. There’s a lot to talk about here.
The irony of integrity
The monk in the photo is Luang Por Dhammajayo.
It’s not clear that he is a criminal. Interested if you can share evidence of his supposed misdemeanours.
The irony of integrity
The title ‘Iron of Integrity’ perplexeds.
We are talking about a notorious criminally defrocked abbot who had fleeced and conned unwary followers of their life savings plus financial scandals aplenty.
And who is the monk in the photo?
The irony of integrity
This is the way a feudal hierarchy reacts to any challenge. As soon as a hump starts to develop on the side of the pyramid of power, the hierarchy swings into action to smooth it out. Dhammajayo was at the head of one of those humps. The classic method of smoothing out humps is by pretending there are rules that have been broken. There are, indeed, pseudo-rules, which powerful people are allowed to break, but those deeds will be held against them only if they get too big for their boots. The lawless system for the powerful is an essential part of feudal society. It is their privilege, so long as they don’t poke their heads up above those who have the means to crush them.
Feudalism does involve high culture (which fundamentalist capitalism does not), but just beneath the surface is the same naked power structure that one finds in a pack of wild dogs. Civilised outsiders are still waiting for high-status Thais to behave less like dogs and to shift to a genuine rules-based culture.
Dammajayo was thrust up on a financial bubble of rich-men’s meritmaking that got out of control. His head poked up too high, and he is being dealt with in the same way as Cardinal Wolsey or Thaksin Shinawat.
The irony of integrity
An interesting supplement to this piece. although the authors are different the combination of both provide a very broad picture of what happened.
http://www.newmandala.org/perplexing-case-wat-dhammakaya/
The irony of integrity
well i dont know if you should expect them to “fight for democracy”. If they do theyll be called political and dogged with more random allegations. plus the anti-democracy faction already dislikes the temple and that would just make the tensions worse.
The irony of integrity
The email version of this jumble of nonsense attributed it to Mish Khan, whose work I’ve enjoyed in the past. I was going to ask if she is now on the Dhammakaya payroll (they pay well for this sort of thing) and somehow misplaced her English skills. But on the NM site it’s attributed to Joshua Jayintoh. Releived.
The irony of integrity
Multiple searches throughout the temple’s vast compounds by the military, with full cooperation from Wat Phra Dhammakaya,
perhaps the author would like to offer a definition of cooperation ?
Dhammajayo’s Bed Not Meant to Deceive, Dhammakaya Says
http://www.khaosodenglish.com/culture/net/2017/02/17/dhammachayos-bed-not-meant-deceive-dhammakaya-says/
The irony of integrity
With respect, it isn’t for the temple’s followers to decide whether the Abbot is innocent. That has to be for the courts to decide.
Are the courts fair? Probably not. But then could not everybody facing charges use that defence? You have to deal with what’s in front of you rather than hat you’d like to be in front of you.
I don’t want to sound like an apologist for the junta, but if the monks and their supporters hadn’t prevented the army from entering the temple then the siege would not have been necessary and lives and injuries would have been spared.
So when the elections were blocked by the junta, and Suthep’s strong-arm men were causing public mayhem, and Bhudda Issara was running his kangaroo courts, where were Luang Por Dhammajayo and his followers? Correct me if I am wrong but, I don’t seem to recall them fighting for democracy at that time. And there are serious questions concerning this sect that requires some answers.
The Aceh Party’s Defeat
It does matter, I think. If one concerns the roots of Acehnese conflict and the background of the peace agreement in 2005, one will understand how crucial it is to know who win and lose the Aceh election. The security and peace in the region will highly depend on who govern Aceh and what is the role of GAM ex-combatants in the society after peace.
Meanwhile, sharia law is another story. Although it also depends on who hold the power in the government. For example, when Irwandi was still the governor in 2009, he refused to sign the qanun jinayah (Islamic criminal code bylaw) due to some provisions in it which are not suitable to human rights values.
Conflict in Kachin continues
Such a long conflict. The Kachin struggle dates back as far – at least- as WW2. Dreadful that even now, a peaceful solution has not been found.
The problem with a one woman show
Aung San Suu Kyi and her top down leadership (of the NLD party), has been a huge disappointment for the millions of Burmese who are still mired in extreme poverty, illiteracy, suppression by the military generals who still run the show and call the shots behind the scenes.
I’m appalled, as is the world, of the ethnic cleansing that has taken place in Rakhine State, despite repeated denials and silence on her part from confronting and speaking out against what has transpired. Myanmar being a devout Buddhist country, yet the atrocities done to the Rohingya people in Rakhine by the military has been shocking, despite their attempts to cover up the pillaging, rape, murder and burning of whole villages. Not to mention the radical and hardline Buddhists, led by Wirathu, who has relentlessly spearheaded the anti-muslim movement, to drive the millions of muslims out of Myanmar.
She reminds me of the “Stockholm” syndrome and it’s becoming evident that she was and is power hungry and not who she projected to be. History is replete w/examples that when you put someone on a pedestal, they are bound to disappoint and fall, since they too have flaws, weaknesses and shortcomings.
Ms Suu Kyi’s perceived silence on the Rohingya has severely damaged her reputation as a beacon for human rights. In hindsight, the Nobel Committee should have waited before deciding to award her the prize. This former beacon of the human rights community is now very much alienated from many of her international supporters. She is wary of the media and disdainful of her international critics, far more the steely politician than the global icon feted from capital to capital when she was released seven years ago.
The military generals have used her to get most if not all sanctions lifted and despite aid and investments that have poured in since she took office, the military continues to have full control and benefit economically in every way imaginable while the majority of the Burmese continue to suffer day by day.
The majority of Burmese people are beginning to realize that she’s not the “savior” they thought she would be. It was only a matter of time before their eyes were opened and now it has.
Battling Indonesia’s declining revenues
The tax office has been targeting businesses that are already compliant and threatening them with audit and public shaming if they do not join the amnesty. It’s another attempt at extortion.
Blocking Papua from the Truth
With a mindset like that Europe undeveloped Africa and many other parts of the world. Of course, its convenient. The Melanesian people are not Indonesian. The European , American, New Zealand, Australian and South African Caucasian are the same. The latter got their independence from their own kind.
Papua was never part of Indonesia and never meant to be.
The Aceh Party’s Defeat
Yet again, I find myself surprisingly agreeing with Peter Cohen. The simple fact, in Aceh, is : there were more human rights – certainly for women ( hak manusia wanita) UNDER SUHARTO – than now. Australia’s Left is particularly guilty of playing into the hands of hard-line Aceh fundamentalist extremists.
Tackling sex re-assignment surgery in Malaysia
Overall, I would say – from experience – that. Malaysia is less tolerant, than its far larger Muslim brother – Indonesia – towards transgendered.