Don’t really know what happened to that paragraph early starting with, “In retrospect, I absolutely agree…”. I wrote the comment using my phone and there were some autocorrect errors. Hope those screwed up sentences can be shifted through and figured out.
Please stop with this ‘foreign intervention” bullcrap. The current Govt is “West” friendly. If you don’t know what that implies, you really need to re-read recent history.
It is lovely to see you honor Ms. Mish Khan and hold her to the high standard she is deserving of. I on the other hand have not asked to be considered an academic, but rather, bring discussion and honest information to this topic. I am not here to learn how to become an academic, that journey is for people like you. And I try not to judge others, whomever they are, blindly or fall guilty of commiting internet trolling.
In retrospect, I absolutely agree with the 100% cooperation title I gave the temple as misleading; insomuch as they were 100% compliant for the first 3 days until they felt completely their human & religious right were becoming stomped all over by the military and police. At this point, they peacefully exhibited a defiance against. However from what I read in the official government-based media, they made it seem like the monks and laypeople were acting out and being aggressive to the police. Actually, they just created a human barracade and sat, meditated, and chanted some of the holy suttas in a peaceful albeit defiant protest. So thank you for that pull-up.
The “Teacher’s Day” วันครู – a national day in Thailand – exhibits that all teachers are traditionally held in great esteem and honor in the culture. I mean, you being a translator, must know and see that the very word for “teacher” – of any knowledge – in Thai ครู “Khruu” comes directly from the Sanskrit word गुरु “guru”. So obviously the ancient Thais wanted to impart a lesson there. One that is rooted in one’s world view, a sense of gratitude
กตเวทิตา, respect เคารพ, and honor. The more a person understand truth ธรรม, and develops their character, the more they understand devotion and gratitude to their teachers. That’s the only way one can really see the article in a more full light.
Although I appreciate the time and education you have in the Thai language, I respectfully disagree with your statement of “Phra Dhammajayo” not being less respectful. In terms of the Thai Sangha, and “Phra Dhammajayo’s” Royal title history – recently revoked – there has been a successive degradation of the terms applied and used for him. The better title for him would be พระเดจพระคุณ referring to a great monk’s moral might and virtue. However this is usually reserved for those monastics with honorary royal titles.
‘Phra’ พระ takes it roots from Sanskrit, where some scholars say it is from the word पर ‘para’ meaning supreme or highest. Some say it is ‘vara’ meaning excellent or best. The word is meant to denote the quality of their character, how they train themselves, and their status in society as worthy of veneration. Moreover the word also is related to พร ‘Pawrn’ meaning blessing, auspicious, or bestowing good wishes.
หลวงพ่อ “Reverend / Holy” “Father” is indeed more familiar, informal, and affectionate, which is what, us, his students prefer. Many famed monks are affectionately referred to as หลวงพ่อ Luang Por (I am familiar with the Royal Institute Romanizations) or หลวงปู่ Luang Pu because there is a closeness there. Phra Dhammajayo gives the colder, dryer, and more distant inference which is the perception and effect the negative media press want to achieve. หลวง Luang was also considered a higher title in ancient Thai civil nobility. That is why I described it as less respectful.
If the person you are acquainted with is Mano Laohavanich or Sulak Sivaraksa, I do not consider either of these men authorities on the temple. Accolades aside, no matter how deep Mano มะนาว – a greatly referenced “authority” and critic on Wat Phra Dhammakaya – thinks he was in the Dhammakaya temple, I could tell you some shocking first-hand accounts I know of him that are more than disturbing and shock me as to why people take him seriously. Most importantly, his post-graduate education at Oxford and Harvard was paid for by the Dhammakaya temple devotees.
Again, and respectfully, a lot of what I read here is that your information comes from things you read, or hear other people say, Thai or ฝรั่ง. It doesn’t come from personally knowing ‘Phra Dhammajayo’. I’m not asking you to at the same time. Yes the temple is “controversial”. Anything that big and grandiose is. If you could even manage to get 1 million New Yorkers to try and sit in silence and meditate together – and not hurt each other – in one place you better believe there would be some problems and ego clashes. But it doesn’t make the endeavor any less admirable or noble.
That said, the probability of having some wackos in the crowd is very high. And it is usually those whacks that make the most noise, and cause discord. Are there elements that are hard for us ‘farang’ to swallow. Of course. Are there elements that eerily remind us of crazy cults. Yes. But to focus on those things and not the underlying message or profundity of the universal Dharma teachings exemplified and taught in the temple that penetrate not just through the Theravādan lineage of Buddhism, but through all vehicles of Buddhism would be to throw the baby out with the bath water. Moreover, given all the ludicrous elements and politics of this current junta, it just shows that they are being made an example of, and are victims of a larger picture the Thai junta seems to intend to impose on its ‘subjects’.
And the temple is always described as controversial, both on Thai and English speaking media. They almost always reference court-cases, charges, or some drama which then equals that it has a “dark past”.
Luang Por Dhammajayo hasn’t been seen lately – before this chaos – because he is very ill. If you read the list of his medical conditions above, that is an official diagnosis from both independent and DSI doctors, you will see how very severe his condition is. And this is why the temple asked for the charge so now read at the the temple. He wasn’t running away or avoiding it, the temple tried to resolve the problem by asking the DSI – multiple times – to read the charges at the temple. DSI refused. It wasn’t about Phra Dhammajayo wanting to save face. My reference was to the junta and DSI making all this crazy commotion and eventual siege so they can save face.
Honestly I have no clue where he is or who he is with. I can confidently say not many do. The point of the article was not to say that the devotees are barracading around his living quarters – which yes they have done in the past and for good reason – preventing the police from taking him. In the west, looking at figures like Socrates who turned himself in, we consider that an example. So why does Phra Dhammajayo not turn himself in, even if he does become a martyr? Wouldn’t that degrade his image even more if he doesn’t turn himself in? The article was to say that it is not about Phra Dhammajayo wanting to turn himself in or not, meaning, this isn’t about his quality of character to not be strong enough to turn himself in. It is that the people around him who love and respect him, do not want him to suffer and be wrongly accused and convicted, much as Phra Phimontham was trailed and convicted in the 1950’s and 60’s when he stood up to injustice and tyranny. The funny thing is that Phra Dhammajayo isn’t stand up to injustice, being political like Buddha-Isara. He’s just trying to achieve his goal of educating people on – and spreading inner peace and the teachings of Lord Buddha.
Phra Phimontham was forceably disrobed, and jailed as an example to the public that you better fall in line and not make waves. The devotees of the temple just want to practice their faith, and at the same time do not want Luang Por Dhammajayo to turn himself in because of the obvious we all state here. So they in a way won’t let him turn himself in, and are protecting him. Also because he is so ill that he can hardly walk – if walk at all. Is it a perfect solution, no! But it is the decision they – whoever they are – are making.
As you said, the red shirt tie and connection to the temple is a conspiracy and really ill-founded. Temples humorously – and truly – call themselves “white shirts” because they stand for peace and harmony in the community. Wat Phra Dhammakaya is one of those temples.
Straight-talking, yet optimistic and pointing in the right direction: this post makes it clear why, for the sake of Cambodian democracy, the opposition must avoid pandering to anti-Vietnamese sentiment in order to win power. Only if they avoid this, will they take away Hun Sen’s prime excuse for clinging to power.
You must have brains down there to be completely ignorant and speaking as a rightist it is fully understandable you have such insecurities. Shame on you.
The biggest suspect must be a government that has a policy of Islamisation of Malaysia. This is not the first victim of disappearance. There must be international intervention.
IMHO, this comment has no merit. Declared a criminal by whom? A bunch or treasonous and corrupt soldiers?
Defrocked by whom? A bunch of senior parasites whose credentials of spirituality are moot? The same people who, while criticising Phra Dhammajayo, make no comment and take no action against Phra Buddha Issara?
I thought it was an enjoyable piece, followed by a series of enjoyable comments. I make no comment on the propriety or otherwise of the Dhammakaya Foundation, other than to say I have no doubt whatever that the government’s complaints about these people have little or no merit. That is not so much an endorsement of the temple, as an expression of considerable cynicism regarding the current government. To be candid, the gnashing of teeth and beating your breasts by this current disreputable bunch who seized power in a few years ago seems to be an extraordinary amount of pure humbug. To say that the temple is dishonest and corrupt is a splendid example of the pot calling the kettle black. If I were to have any of the worthless Prayuth, Prem or Prawit shake my hand, my first instinct would be to count my fingers such is my estimation of their integrity and honesty.
Having said all that, I don’t think there’s any doubt that is the Dhammakaya Temple is the centre of an active cult, but I do not see that this accusation has much significance, given that the practice of Buddhism in Thailand is almost exclusively a cult anyway, and were Buddha to tread the earth once more, I sincerely doubt he would recognise anything of what he taught being put into practice in what passes for Buddhism today. Indeed, I find it hard to digest any talk about the religions in Thailand given the widespread and slavishly-followed and equally disgracefulcult of personality which was deliberately built up around the last King. It’s no different at all.
I have no doubt whatever, that the motivation behind the persecution of the Dhammakaya Foundation has nothing to do with the alleged acceptance of stolen money or corruption and I note that Mr Prayuth himself is alleged to have a personal fortune of upwards of 100 million Baht, which he refuses to account for, and which he refuses to allow investigation of, while simultaneously demanding the prosecution of other corrupt people in Thailand (of which there are a great many, thieving seeming to be almost a national preoccupation among Thais). So any complaint he might have about anyone else falls at the first hurdle – it seems the pot calls quite a lot of kettles black, which cannot possibly be a surprise to the Thai people. Because of that one (undeniable) fact, my complete lack of faith in the Thai people and what I believe to be, a miserable and worthless culture is fully justified.
It seems to me to be plainly evident at Thailand could do with rather more honestly Buddhist temples. I cannot comment on your personal view as to the honesty of Phra Dhammajayo and his colleagues: but if reflected in fact, then perhaps we could do with more of his ilk, whether or not he propounds truly Buddhist teachings, or a mere distortion of them. In a country where I would estimate that 95% of people believe wholeheartedly in what is effectively a synthetic cult anyway, I cannot see any basis at all for accusing anybody else of following cultish teachings or practices. Hominem, nosce te ipsum.
.
I am talking about Article 11(4) of the Constitution clearly prohibits the spread of other religion than Islam to the Muslim community.
“Undang-undang negeri dan mengenai Wilayah-wilayah Persekutuan Kuala Lumpur, Labuan dan Putrajaya, undang-undang persekutuan boleh mengawal atau menyekat pengembangan apa-apa iktikad atau kepercayaan agama antara orang-orang yang menganuti agama Islam.”
Even State’s enactments have provided similar provision that disallow proselytizing other religions than Islam.
So it is a bit strange why the police, jakim or its proxies as alleged by some quarters here would resort to abducting the pastor because of religious reason.
If your are a true Muslim wahai Mohd Ismail anak Mohd Yahya, you must know that in Islam you must furnish uncontested evidence if you accuse someone as stealing, murdering, raping or what not. Otherwise you will be sentenced under takzir punishment for fitnah.
Yes, I was impressed with your new found expertise. I thought you must have been having a few conversations with A/Prof. Jim Taylor, who is an extremely interesting scholar-activist although unlikely to be a welcome guest in The Realm anytime soon,.
Steve if neither Dr. Taylor’s nor Dr. Pavin’s explanations ” hold water” – then Wat Dhammakaya is NOT a “red-shirt temple”. Have I understood you correctly ?
Thanks for the explanation Misha Khan – all us posters should be thankful to you, and everyone else @NM, for the great work you all do, under challenging, difficult circumstances – which go with the terrain. Not for the faint-hearted!!
Dear All,
Can we all at least agree that the skydiving dalliance is just a load of nonsense? I mean, really, it is just too far fetched and ridiculous to be true. This much really should be more than self-evident to just about anyone with their wits about them.
There are, of course, no end of more credible incidents that attest to V’s “intemperate” behavior. The guys a disgrace, plain and simple.
Sure he is. The number of occasions when something new is proposed (either law or policy) only to be reversed if public opinion (mainly evidenced by social media) gets frantic have increased this year. Or at least that is my perception. That is ‘walking things back’. As a result of fear, including fear of the new head boy who I believe may yet upset a certain soldier’s apple cart.
Might easily be wrong, but that’s my perception, solidified by watching the interactions between the new head boy and the muppet-general at the counterfeit-constitution-signing.
Halo Peter, no… what happened to Basuki Tjahaya Purnama was a result to the New Order government’s severe establishment of identity politics (I think). The anti-Chinese sentiment and religious views have been evidently played by his opponent.
Here, I was not talking specifically about Islam and Aceh. I was talking about how women issues in different areas in Indonesia needed local approaches.
TK Lim: Since you are so high up the plughole of Malaysia’s ruling government, as corrupt as it is, Malaysia’s polce, as corrupt and dangerous as it is, and JAKIM, as racist and bigoted and dubious as it is, perhaps you have the “evidence” or – as you so blithely call it – “information” that neither of the three aforementioned have always totally acted within the law and constitution, including your MCA no doubt.
Please, lah: First thing your education hasn’t thought you in Malaysia, and you should learn from elsewhere, is never attack the messenger, like your government and its institutions does as a matter of routine; but you should focus on the message if you have sea-salt in your pores. Second, since when has the Malaysian governemt or any of its branches always provided Malaysians with the unvarnished truth about anything? Third, even your in famous IGP, protector of Najib and UMNO, is fishing for a culprit but who does he suspect: Pastor Koh himself. Banyak pandai (very clever) he is, isn’t he? This is not gossip but a clever use of speculation to flesh out a serious problem of growing racism, bigotry and religious persecution in Malaysia. Tapi kalau kamu nak sokong kerajaan korupsi dan penipu, bagus untuk kamu, ya? Saya harap kamu gembira dengan kealaman politik busuk diMalaysia. But I think Manjit Bhatia has does a good thing here when most Malaysians are too takut macam tikus (as scared as mice) to challenge the establishment in Malaysia. He didn’t accuse police or JAKIM for Koh’s disappearance but asserted police and JAKIM have form and could perhgaps provide answers. It is all in how one reads a piece of work. Tau tak?
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The irony of integrity
I think we call all rely on Nick Nostitz to clarify this question concerning the “redness” of the temple:
2 years ago, Nick said: “And yes, i have been aware for the past ten years that Dhammakaya supports Thaksin.” http://www.newmandala.org/bangkoks-last-red-shirt-fortress/#comment-1922404
And just to confirm that awareness, 5 weeks ago Nick said:
“While quite a few Red Shirts i know are followers, Dhammakaya itself indeed is not outright Red, has many uninvolved, and also Yellow followers.”
http://www.newmandala.org/perplexing-case-wat-dhammakaya/#comment-1932923
So there you have your answer, Chris. Make of it what you will. Everyone else does!
The irony of integrity
Don’t really know what happened to that paragraph early starting with, “In retrospect, I absolutely agree…”. I wrote the comment using my phone and there were some autocorrect errors. Hope those screwed up sentences can be shifted through and figured out.
Who’s behind Pastor Koh’s disappearance?
Please stop with this ‘foreign intervention” bullcrap. The current Govt is “West” friendly. If you don’t know what that implies, you really need to re-read recent history.
The irony of integrity
คุณ Steve,
ตอนแรกผมขอแสดงความยินดีที่เร่มมีความเข้าใจระหว่างเราสองคน ไอผมก็พูดฟังเขียนอ่านภาษาไทยได้พอสมควร ผมมิได้เป็นนักปลแต่ก็รู้เรื่องนะครับ ความเป็นจริงเรื่องวัดพระธรรมกายเป็นเรื่องใหญ่ ซับซ้อน ต้องดูดีๆ ถึงจะรู้ทันรู้จริงได้ แล้วเราต้องพูดขวานผ่าซาก
To get to some of your points.
It is lovely to see you honor Ms. Mish Khan and hold her to the high standard she is deserving of. I on the other hand have not asked to be considered an academic, but rather, bring discussion and honest information to this topic. I am not here to learn how to become an academic, that journey is for people like you. And I try not to judge others, whomever they are, blindly or fall guilty of commiting internet trolling.
In retrospect, I absolutely agree with the 100% cooperation title I gave the temple as misleading; insomuch as they were 100% compliant for the first 3 days until they felt completely their human & religious right were becoming stomped all over by the military and police. At this point, they peacefully exhibited a defiance against. However from what I read in the official government-based media, they made it seem like the monks and laypeople were acting out and being aggressive to the police. Actually, they just created a human barracade and sat, meditated, and chanted some of the holy suttas in a peaceful albeit defiant protest. So thank you for that pull-up.
The “Teacher’s Day” วันครู – a national day in Thailand – exhibits that all teachers are traditionally held in great esteem and honor in the culture. I mean, you being a translator, must know and see that the very word for “teacher” – of any knowledge – in Thai ครู “Khruu” comes directly from the Sanskrit word गुरु “guru”. So obviously the ancient Thais wanted to impart a lesson there. One that is rooted in one’s world view, a sense of gratitude
กตเวทิตา, respect เคารพ, and honor. The more a person understand truth ธรรม, and develops their character, the more they understand devotion and gratitude to their teachers. That’s the only way one can really see the article in a more full light.
Although I appreciate the time and education you have in the Thai language, I respectfully disagree with your statement of “Phra Dhammajayo” not being less respectful. In terms of the Thai Sangha, and “Phra Dhammajayo’s” Royal title history – recently revoked – there has been a successive degradation of the terms applied and used for him. The better title for him would be พระเดจพระคุณ referring to a great monk’s moral might and virtue. However this is usually reserved for those monastics with honorary royal titles.
‘Phra’ พระ takes it roots from Sanskrit, where some scholars say it is from the word पर ‘para’ meaning supreme or highest. Some say it is ‘vara’ meaning excellent or best. The word is meant to denote the quality of their character, how they train themselves, and their status in society as worthy of veneration. Moreover the word also is related to พร ‘Pawrn’ meaning blessing, auspicious, or bestowing good wishes.
หลวงพ่อ “Reverend / Holy” “Father” is indeed more familiar, informal, and affectionate, which is what, us, his students prefer. Many famed monks are affectionately referred to as หลวงพ่อ Luang Por (I am familiar with the Royal Institute Romanizations) or หลวงปู่ Luang Pu because there is a closeness there. Phra Dhammajayo gives the colder, dryer, and more distant inference which is the perception and effect the negative media press want to achieve. หลวง Luang was also considered a higher title in ancient Thai civil nobility. That is why I described it as less respectful.
If the person you are acquainted with is Mano Laohavanich or Sulak Sivaraksa, I do not consider either of these men authorities on the temple. Accolades aside, no matter how deep Mano มะนาว – a greatly referenced “authority” and critic on Wat Phra Dhammakaya – thinks he was in the Dhammakaya temple, I could tell you some shocking first-hand accounts I know of him that are more than disturbing and shock me as to why people take him seriously. Most importantly, his post-graduate education at Oxford and Harvard was paid for by the Dhammakaya temple devotees.
Again, and respectfully, a lot of what I read here is that your information comes from things you read, or hear other people say, Thai or ฝรั่ง. It doesn’t come from personally knowing ‘Phra Dhammajayo’. I’m not asking you to at the same time. Yes the temple is “controversial”. Anything that big and grandiose is. If you could even manage to get 1 million New Yorkers to try and sit in silence and meditate together – and not hurt each other – in one place you better believe there would be some problems and ego clashes. But it doesn’t make the endeavor any less admirable or noble.
That said, the probability of having some wackos in the crowd is very high. And it is usually those whacks that make the most noise, and cause discord. Are there elements that are hard for us ‘farang’ to swallow. Of course. Are there elements that eerily remind us of crazy cults. Yes. But to focus on those things and not the underlying message or profundity of the universal Dharma teachings exemplified and taught in the temple that penetrate not just through the Theravādan lineage of Buddhism, but through all vehicles of Buddhism would be to throw the baby out with the bath water. Moreover, given all the ludicrous elements and politics of this current junta, it just shows that they are being made an example of, and are victims of a larger picture the Thai junta seems to intend to impose on its ‘subjects’.
And the temple is always described as controversial, both on Thai and English speaking media. They almost always reference court-cases, charges, or some drama which then equals that it has a “dark past”.
Luang Por Dhammajayo hasn’t been seen lately – before this chaos – because he is very ill. If you read the list of his medical conditions above, that is an official diagnosis from both independent and DSI doctors, you will see how very severe his condition is. And this is why the temple asked for the charge so now read at the the temple. He wasn’t running away or avoiding it, the temple tried to resolve the problem by asking the DSI – multiple times – to read the charges at the temple. DSI refused. It wasn’t about Phra Dhammajayo wanting to save face. My reference was to the junta and DSI making all this crazy commotion and eventual siege so they can save face.
Honestly I have no clue where he is or who he is with. I can confidently say not many do. The point of the article was not to say that the devotees are barracading around his living quarters – which yes they have done in the past and for good reason – preventing the police from taking him. In the west, looking at figures like Socrates who turned himself in, we consider that an example. So why does Phra Dhammajayo not turn himself in, even if he does become a martyr? Wouldn’t that degrade his image even more if he doesn’t turn himself in? The article was to say that it is not about Phra Dhammajayo wanting to turn himself in or not, meaning, this isn’t about his quality of character to not be strong enough to turn himself in. It is that the people around him who love and respect him, do not want him to suffer and be wrongly accused and convicted, much as Phra Phimontham was trailed and convicted in the 1950’s and 60’s when he stood up to injustice and tyranny. The funny thing is that Phra Dhammajayo isn’t stand up to injustice, being political like Buddha-Isara. He’s just trying to achieve his goal of educating people on – and spreading inner peace and the teachings of Lord Buddha.
Phra Phimontham was forceably disrobed, and jailed as an example to the public that you better fall in line and not make waves. The devotees of the temple just want to practice their faith, and at the same time do not want Luang Por Dhammajayo to turn himself in because of the obvious we all state here. So they in a way won’t let him turn himself in, and are protecting him. Also because he is so ill that he can hardly walk – if walk at all. Is it a perfect solution, no! But it is the decision they – whoever they are – are making.
As you said, the red shirt tie and connection to the temple is a conspiracy and really ill-founded. Temples humorously – and truly – call themselves “white shirts” because they stand for peace and harmony in the community. Wat Phra Dhammakaya is one of those temples.
Cambodian youth: shaping relations with Vietnam
Straight-talking, yet optimistic and pointing in the right direction: this post makes it clear why, for the sake of Cambodian democracy, the opposition must avoid pandering to anti-Vietnamese sentiment in order to win power. Only if they avoid this, will they take away Hun Sen’s prime excuse for clinging to power.
Who’s behind Pastor Koh’s disappearance?
You must have brains down there to be completely ignorant and speaking as a rightist it is fully understandable you have such insecurities. Shame on you.
The impact of Indonesia’s online transportation ban on the disabled
Really enjoyed this angle on the GRUBERJEK effect. On the surface at least, online taxis seem to add a huge amount of value.
Who’s behind Pastor Koh’s disappearance?
The biggest suspect must be a government that has a policy of Islamisation of Malaysia. This is not the first victim of disappearance. There must be international intervention.
The irony of integrity
IMHO, this comment has no merit. Declared a criminal by whom? A bunch or treasonous and corrupt soldiers?
Defrocked by whom? A bunch of senior parasites whose credentials of spirituality are moot? The same people who, while criticising Phra Dhammajayo, make no comment and take no action against Phra Buddha Issara?
They have no credibility at all in my estimation.
The irony of integrity
I thought it was an enjoyable piece, followed by a series of enjoyable comments. I make no comment on the propriety or otherwise of the Dhammakaya Foundation, other than to say I have no doubt whatever that the government’s complaints about these people have little or no merit. That is not so much an endorsement of the temple, as an expression of considerable cynicism regarding the current government. To be candid, the gnashing of teeth and beating your breasts by this current disreputable bunch who seized power in a few years ago seems to be an extraordinary amount of pure humbug. To say that the temple is dishonest and corrupt is a splendid example of the pot calling the kettle black. If I were to have any of the worthless Prayuth, Prem or Prawit shake my hand, my first instinct would be to count my fingers such is my estimation of their integrity and honesty.
Having said all that, I don’t think there’s any doubt that is the Dhammakaya Temple is the centre of an active cult, but I do not see that this accusation has much significance, given that the practice of Buddhism in Thailand is almost exclusively a cult anyway, and were Buddha to tread the earth once more, I sincerely doubt he would recognise anything of what he taught being put into practice in what passes for Buddhism today. Indeed, I find it hard to digest any talk about the religions in Thailand given the widespread and slavishly-followed and equally disgracefulcult of personality which was deliberately built up around the last King. It’s no different at all.
I have no doubt whatever, that the motivation behind the persecution of the Dhammakaya Foundation has nothing to do with the alleged acceptance of stolen money or corruption and I note that Mr Prayuth himself is alleged to have a personal fortune of upwards of 100 million Baht, which he refuses to account for, and which he refuses to allow investigation of, while simultaneously demanding the prosecution of other corrupt people in Thailand (of which there are a great many, thieving seeming to be almost a national preoccupation among Thais). So any complaint he might have about anyone else falls at the first hurdle – it seems the pot calls quite a lot of kettles black, which cannot possibly be a surprise to the Thai people. Because of that one (undeniable) fact, my complete lack of faith in the Thai people and what I believe to be, a miserable and worthless culture is fully justified.
It seems to me to be plainly evident at Thailand could do with rather more honestly Buddhist temples. I cannot comment on your personal view as to the honesty of Phra Dhammajayo and his colleagues: but if reflected in fact, then perhaps we could do with more of his ilk, whether or not he propounds truly Buddhist teachings, or a mere distortion of them. In a country where I would estimate that 95% of people believe wholeheartedly in what is effectively a synthetic cult anyway, I cannot see any basis at all for accusing anybody else of following cultish teachings or practices. Hominem, nosce te ipsum.
.
Who’s behind Pastor Koh’s disappearance?
I am talking about Article 11(4) of the Constitution clearly prohibits the spread of other religion than Islam to the Muslim community.
“Undang-undang negeri dan mengenai Wilayah-wilayah Persekutuan Kuala Lumpur, Labuan dan Putrajaya, undang-undang persekutuan boleh mengawal atau menyekat pengembangan apa-apa iktikad atau kepercayaan agama antara orang-orang yang menganuti agama Islam.”
Even State’s enactments have provided similar provision that disallow proselytizing other religions than Islam.
So it is a bit strange why the police, jakim or its proxies as alleged by some quarters here would resort to abducting the pastor because of religious reason.
Who’s behind Pastor Koh’s disappearance?
If your are a true Muslim wahai Mohd Ismail anak Mohd Yahya, you must know that in Islam you must furnish uncontested evidence if you accuse someone as stealing, murdering, raping or what not. Otherwise you will be sentenced under takzir punishment for fitnah.
The irony of integrity
Yes, I was impressed with your new found expertise. I thought you must have been having a few conversations with A/Prof. Jim Taylor, who is an extremely interesting scholar-activist although unlikely to be a welcome guest in The Realm anytime soon,.
The irony of integrity
Well said Morgan. And it’s not only rabbits. The cat is still among the pigeons.
The irony of integrity
Steve if neither Dr. Taylor’s nor Dr. Pavin’s explanations ” hold water” – then Wat Dhammakaya is NOT a “red-shirt temple”. Have I understood you correctly ?
The irony of integrity
Thanks for the explanation Misha Khan – all us posters should be thankful to you, and everyone else @NM, for the great work you all do, under challenging, difficult circumstances – which go with the terrain. Not for the faint-hearted!!
Risk, gossip and retribution in Thailand
Dear All,
Can we all at least agree that the skydiving dalliance is just a load of nonsense? I mean, really, it is just too far fetched and ridiculous to be true. This much really should be more than self-evident to just about anyone with their wits about them.
There are, of course, no end of more credible incidents that attest to V’s “intemperate” behavior. The guys a disgrace, plain and simple.
The irony of integrity
Sure he is. The number of occasions when something new is proposed (either law or policy) only to be reversed if public opinion (mainly evidenced by social media) gets frantic have increased this year. Or at least that is my perception. That is ‘walking things back’. As a result of fear, including fear of the new head boy who I believe may yet upset a certain soldier’s apple cart.
Might easily be wrong, but that’s my perception, solidified by watching the interactions between the new head boy and the muppet-general at the counterfeit-constitution-signing.
Indonesian women need local solutions
Halo Peter, no… what happened to Basuki Tjahaya Purnama was a result to the New Order government’s severe establishment of identity politics (I think). The anti-Chinese sentiment and religious views have been evidently played by his opponent.
Here, I was not talking specifically about Islam and Aceh. I was talking about how women issues in different areas in Indonesia needed local approaches.
Who’s behind Pastor Koh’s disappearance?
TK Lim: Since you are so high up the plughole of Malaysia’s ruling government, as corrupt as it is, Malaysia’s polce, as corrupt and dangerous as it is, and JAKIM, as racist and bigoted and dubious as it is, perhaps you have the “evidence” or – as you so blithely call it – “information” that neither of the three aforementioned have always totally acted within the law and constitution, including your MCA no doubt.
Please, lah: First thing your education hasn’t thought you in Malaysia, and you should learn from elsewhere, is never attack the messenger, like your government and its institutions does as a matter of routine; but you should focus on the message if you have sea-salt in your pores. Second, since when has the Malaysian governemt or any of its branches always provided Malaysians with the unvarnished truth about anything? Third, even your in famous IGP, protector of Najib and UMNO, is fishing for a culprit but who does he suspect: Pastor Koh himself. Banyak pandai (very clever) he is, isn’t he? This is not gossip but a clever use of speculation to flesh out a serious problem of growing racism, bigotry and religious persecution in Malaysia. Tapi kalau kamu nak sokong kerajaan korupsi dan penipu, bagus untuk kamu, ya? Saya harap kamu gembira dengan kealaman politik busuk diMalaysia. But I think Manjit Bhatia has does a good thing here when most Malaysians are too takut macam tikus (as scared as mice) to challenge the establishment in Malaysia. He didn’t accuse police or JAKIM for Koh’s disappearance but asserted police and JAKIM have form and could perhgaps provide answers. It is all in how one reads a piece of work. Tau tak?