Yes, well. Compassion is one thing, so is forgiveness, but the subject being referred to had a jo which required him to remain free of illusion and delusion. Of course everyone with a brain knows his job was something else entirely, His job was to look after the interests and welfare of ALL the Thai people, not just the few at the top who donated the pots of tax-free money.
And he wasn’t up to the job so he should have abdicated in favour of a republic decades ago.
I hope some on NM will recognize that this, and not just the unleashed id of another authoritarian junta, is precisely the mindset that is behind the street clearances.
It is the western/modern drive for [I]recht and ordnung[/I] and squeaky hygiene that is being made manifest, not just the standard “oriental despotism” that is usually invoked to explain whatever we don’t like or agree with in Thai political culture.
The writer is an Oxford academic a romantic and a dreamer. Very patronising as well. Expects thailand to remain an underdeveloped country with massive tax evasion and poor public services so that he can eat cheap street food.
Would he apply the same analysis to UK Germany France or USA?
Thailand does not exist to indulge his romantic daydreams and cheap holiday trips. And another commentator ropes in anarchist Gramsci to justify tax evasion! So in socialist countries is tax evasion tolerated? Dream on.
Most street vendors and market stall operators pay no tax as they do not register for tax. Why should those who operate their businesses through companies and pay corporate tax vat social security and workmens compensation contriibutions subsidise those who do not and who also claim free healthcare at public hospitals and free education at state schools?
Secondly does the writer support the massive and flagrant breach of intellectual property laws practised by street traders seling fake branded clothes watches perfumes cosmetics etc? We need an enthusiastic clampdown on these things by poorly paid police who accept inducements to turn a blind eye. Get rid of the fake goods sellers. It may be fun to take home fake rolexes for yr mates at 3000 bt a pop. But its illegal.
Yr contributors rightly condemn those who hide their money in tax havens and pay no tax. Thinks of the thousands in thailand who never register their businesses and never pay tax or VAT. Have yr commentators followed the policy changes of the Thai Revenue Dept over the past two yrs? Use of registered partnerships to avoid tax has been clamped down on. Lower rate bands for corporate and personal tax have been established to specifically encourage people to register for tax, come into the tax net and contribute something. Isnt that a good thing?
The third point is the public hygiene issue. Have any of yr readers seen the massive rats who live in the storm drains adjacent to food markets which are a ready supply of food. Take a walk down Silom Roaf any evening and observe for yrself. Would that be tolerated in New York London Paris or Berlin? No it would not. Rats spread diseases. Never heard of Weils disease?. The only way to get rid of the rats is to eliminate their food supply – waste food from street food stalls.
The stalls have to go. Markets should be enclosed eg Mahboonkrong. Better hygiene tax registrations and less fake goods for sale is the result.
Any evidence or further reading for this? Especially, on the so called elite consensus of drug war you referred to. I don’t think Thaksin would be willing to be a henchman for anyone on that particular matter.
The key word, that makes all the difference here is “constitution”. George Washington was a military man who believed in one. Phibul may have believed in one in 1932, but like most Thai generals, he was easily corrupted by crawlers. The establishment of a Constitution was the key platform of the People’s Party of 1932. The royalists have always despised and feared constitutions, because under one, the traditional power hierarchy would have to submit to laws. Once the people come to respect and contribute to laws more than patronage (which they contribute to by grovelling), the foundation of the state changes from feudalism towards democracy, and royal power is diminished. Laws then apply to all of the old beneficiaries of feudalism, from the King who under feudalism cannot commit a crime no matter how tyrannical he is, right down to the lowest official whose main income is money and favours extorted from the poor. Even when the powerful appoint lying stooges to the court that interprets the constitution, nobody can hide or defend the lies, which a clear constitution will inevitably expose to the world.
The failure, so far, of constitutionalism in Thailand is due to lack of respect for, or involvement in laws among ordinary Thais, who still cling to patronage. That is ineffective behaviour, of course, as the great majority are better off when they live in a law-abiding society where laws are shaped by people’s representatives in a way that enables the population to live in peace and harmony with each other and with the rest of nature. A cynic may ask, “Where is that achieved?” The answer is: nowhere yet, but some countries are closer to it than others; there is no guarantee it will ever be achieved, but if we don’t to a large extent in the quite near future, we’re fucked.
Thailand gives Facebook 4-day deadline to remove ‘illicit’ pages
THAI authorities have given Facebook until 10am local time next Tuesday to remove web pages it says violates local laws, failing which legal action will be taken.
According to news reports, by order of the Thai court, the social media giant needs to remove a total of 131 pages, some of which are said to contain posts critical of the monarchy.
“If even a single illicit page remains, we will immediately discuss what legal steps to take against Facebook Thailand,” The Guardian quoted Takorn Tantasith, secretary-general of the National Broadcasting and Telecommunications Commission, as saying.
I think you’ll probably find that the terms ‘irony’ and ‘sarcasm’ are more-or-less interchangeable these days Ralph. Not that you were wrong, just that the distinction (and there is a fine distinction) is likely lost on Michael. Inter alia.
He was the “father of our country” not of democracy. After all a country that denied women the right to vote could never be justly described as a democracy. Not to mention all those black people who were property. I know history books are boring but we should all read them anyway.
Oh, so sorry, Michael Wilson. I mistook sarcasm for irony or the reverse. I’ll try to do better and get my head to the level you desire. Maybe have a chat with Mark Dunn as well.
Well, Mark, as Humpty Dumpty might well have said:
“When I write about a bit of history, it means exactly what I choose it will mean, no more, no less.”
And if any fool were to stand up and play Alice to ask whether history can be made to mean so many different things, one group would ask “Are you Thai?” and the other would call you either an angry troll (white male variety) or a royalist apologist.
It isn’t just in Trump’s America that post-factuality serves both sides.
I must say that is seems slightly ironic to me that any true democrat could see this plaque as a Symbol of democracy.
It is/was not. It literally marked the exact spot where a Thai general stood to proclaim Thailand’s first military coup and to inform Thais that the coup leaders would give them a Constitution.
It was/is a symbol of the very dictatorship that Thailand has never since been able to escape. That Military Coup set the stage for every single coup d’état that has followed it. Democracy does not and never will come from the hands of a general who rules by right of the gun.
The current military dictator should instal a plaque to his ” Coup ” so that 80 or so years from now some fools can worship it as a
” symbol of democracy “
” a Thai ” has just as much a right to comment as anyone else on this blog. Whether you, I or Michael agree with him/her is irrelevant, he/she has a right to an opinion and there is nothing wrong with them expressing it in this comment section.
I saw nothing in her/his post that violated the rules. While it may distress some readers to learn that the Thai King is held in high esteem by many of his people, I find it rather odd that this would or should come as a shock to any of us.
I know full well who your comment was aimed at, Ralph, and you are right of course that I don’t consider his petty rant to be an example of “reasoned argument” or anything I would associate with “elan”.
Maybe you could get Ed or Alice or Trixie to explain to you what “irony” means and how that relates to my post. From what I remember of The Honeymooners, I’d recommend Alice. Her sarcasm also tended to fly right over Ralph’s head.
Michael Wilson, my comment was on “a thai” and the ad hominem attack. I doubt you’d consider that “elan” and “reasoned argument”, but I might be wrong.
No country has ever attained freedom and justice without the bravery and the courage of its citizens, ready to face danger in order to free themselves from tyranny . Sooner or later the people of Thailand will have to rise against the royals and the generals who enslave them
The Rohingya are an ethnic minority subject to persecution, crimes against humanity, and even genocide. They have always lived in Rakhine State, indeed all of Arakan’s past rulers have been Rohingya. Unless Myanmar ceases its genocide against this nation the International Community will have no choice but to intervene on humanitarian grounds. (doubleplusgoodthink)
When it comes to Thai issues, especially anything to do with either the monarchy or the junta, NM publishes comment after comment, some agonizingly long and ill-informed, that essentially all say the same thing.
Someone comes along and says the opposite with as much elan, as much reasoned argument, and in much fewer words, and you complain about lack of moderation.
you are an idiot. if you are a westerner as your name suggests i would take a more realistic view of the gamut of thai royalty/politics. As a westerner it behooves you to defend democracy, not condone the antithesis.
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The king and facebook
Yes, well. Compassion is one thing, so is forgiveness, but the subject being referred to had a jo which required him to remain free of illusion and delusion. Of course everyone with a brain knows his job was something else entirely, His job was to look after the interests and welfare of ALL the Thai people, not just the few at the top who donated the pots of tax-free money.
And he wasn’t up to the job so he should have abdicated in favour of a republic decades ago.
Last orders in Bangkok
Thank you, Simon.
I hope some on NM will recognize that this, and not just the unleashed id of another authoritarian junta, is precisely the mindset that is behind the street clearances.
It is the western/modern drive for [I]recht and ordnung[/I] and squeaky hygiene that is being made manifest, not just the standard “oriental despotism” that is usually invoked to explain whatever we don’t like or agree with in Thai political culture.
Why Najib Razak is still in power
Then we may presuppose that you are also a recipient? Your comments have all the hallmarks of a bought stooge.
Last orders in Bangkok
The writer is an Oxford academic a romantic and a dreamer. Very patronising as well. Expects thailand to remain an underdeveloped country with massive tax evasion and poor public services so that he can eat cheap street food.
Would he apply the same analysis to UK Germany France or USA?
Thailand does not exist to indulge his romantic daydreams and cheap holiday trips. And another commentator ropes in anarchist Gramsci to justify tax evasion! So in socialist countries is tax evasion tolerated? Dream on.
Most street vendors and market stall operators pay no tax as they do not register for tax. Why should those who operate their businesses through companies and pay corporate tax vat social security and workmens compensation contriibutions subsidise those who do not and who also claim free healthcare at public hospitals and free education at state schools?
Secondly does the writer support the massive and flagrant breach of intellectual property laws practised by street traders seling fake branded clothes watches perfumes cosmetics etc? We need an enthusiastic clampdown on these things by poorly paid police who accept inducements to turn a blind eye. Get rid of the fake goods sellers. It may be fun to take home fake rolexes for yr mates at 3000 bt a pop. But its illegal.
Yr contributors rightly condemn those who hide their money in tax havens and pay no tax. Thinks of the thousands in thailand who never register their businesses and never pay tax or VAT. Have yr commentators followed the policy changes of the Thai Revenue Dept over the past two yrs? Use of registered partnerships to avoid tax has been clamped down on. Lower rate bands for corporate and personal tax have been established to specifically encourage people to register for tax, come into the tax net and contribute something. Isnt that a good thing?
The third point is the public hygiene issue. Have any of yr readers seen the massive rats who live in the storm drains adjacent to food markets which are a ready supply of food. Take a walk down Silom Roaf any evening and observe for yrself. Would that be tolerated in New York London Paris or Berlin? No it would not. Rats spread diseases. Never heard of Weils disease?. The only way to get rid of the rats is to eliminate their food supply – waste food from street food stalls.
The stalls have to go. Markets should be enclosed eg Mahboonkrong. Better hygiene tax registrations and less fake goods for sale is the result.
A state of madness
Any evidence or further reading for this? Especially, on the so called elite consensus of drug war you referred to. I don’t think Thaksin would be willing to be a henchman for anyone on that particular matter.
Kingdom of fear (and favour)
The key word, that makes all the difference here is “constitution”. George Washington was a military man who believed in one. Phibul may have believed in one in 1932, but like most Thai generals, he was easily corrupted by crawlers. The establishment of a Constitution was the key platform of the People’s Party of 1932. The royalists have always despised and feared constitutions, because under one, the traditional power hierarchy would have to submit to laws. Once the people come to respect and contribute to laws more than patronage (which they contribute to by grovelling), the foundation of the state changes from feudalism towards democracy, and royal power is diminished. Laws then apply to all of the old beneficiaries of feudalism, from the King who under feudalism cannot commit a crime no matter how tyrannical he is, right down to the lowest official whose main income is money and favours extorted from the poor. Even when the powerful appoint lying stooges to the court that interprets the constitution, nobody can hide or defend the lies, which a clear constitution will inevitably expose to the world.
The failure, so far, of constitutionalism in Thailand is due to lack of respect for, or involvement in laws among ordinary Thais, who still cling to patronage. That is ineffective behaviour, of course, as the great majority are better off when they live in a law-abiding society where laws are shaped by people’s representatives in a way that enables the population to live in peace and harmony with each other and with the rest of nature. A cynic may ask, “Where is that achieved?” The answer is: nowhere yet, but some countries are closer to it than others; there is no guarantee it will ever be achieved, but if we don’t to a large extent in the quite near future, we’re fucked.
The king and facebook
12th May 2017
Thailand gives Facebook 4-day deadline to remove ‘illicit’ pages
THAI authorities have given Facebook until 10am local time next Tuesday to remove web pages it says violates local laws, failing which legal action will be taken.
According to news reports, by order of the Thai court, the social media giant needs to remove a total of 131 pages, some of which are said to contain posts critical of the monarchy.
“If even a single illicit page remains, we will immediately discuss what legal steps to take against Facebook Thailand,” The Guardian quoted Takorn Tantasith, secretary-general of the National Broadcasting and Telecommunications Commission, as saying.
https://asiancorrespondent.com/2017/05/thailand-gives-facebook-4-day-deadline-remove-illicit-pages/
Kingdom of fear (and favour)
I think you’ll probably find that the terms ‘irony’ and ‘sarcasm’ are more-or-less interchangeable these days Ralph. Not that you were wrong, just that the distinction (and there is a fine distinction) is likely lost on Michael. Inter alia.
Kingdom of fear (and favour)
He was the “father of our country” not of democracy. After all a country that denied women the right to vote could never be justly described as a democracy. Not to mention all those black people who were property. I know history books are boring but we should all read them anyway.
Kingdom of fear (and favour)
Oh, so sorry, Michael Wilson. I mistook sarcasm for irony or the reverse. I’ll try to do better and get my head to the level you desire. Maybe have a chat with Mark Dunn as well.
Kingdom of fear (and favour)
So much for George Washington.
Kingdom of fear (and favour)
Well, Mark, as Humpty Dumpty might well have said:
“When I write about a bit of history, it means exactly what I choose it will mean, no more, no less.”
And if any fool were to stand up and play Alice to ask whether history can be made to mean so many different things, one group would ask “Are you Thai?” and the other would call you either an angry troll (white male variety) or a royalist apologist.
It isn’t just in Trump’s America that post-factuality serves both sides.
https://mjw51.wordpress.com/2017/04/17/whats-been-did-whats-been-hid/
Kingdom of fear (and favour)
I must say that is seems slightly ironic to me that any true democrat could see this plaque as a Symbol of democracy.
It is/was not. It literally marked the exact spot where a Thai general stood to proclaim Thailand’s first military coup and to inform Thais that the coup leaders would give them a Constitution.
It was/is a symbol of the very dictatorship that Thailand has never since been able to escape. That Military Coup set the stage for every single coup d’état that has followed it. Democracy does not and never will come from the hands of a general who rules by right of the gun.
The current military dictator should instal a plaque to his ” Coup ” so that 80 or so years from now some fools can worship it as a
” symbol of democracy “
Kingdom of fear (and favour)
” a Thai ” has just as much a right to comment as anyone else on this blog. Whether you, I or Michael agree with him/her is irrelevant, he/she has a right to an opinion and there is nothing wrong with them expressing it in this comment section.
I saw nothing in her/his post that violated the rules. While it may distress some readers to learn that the Thai King is held in high esteem by many of his people, I find it rather odd that this would or should come as a shock to any of us.
Kingdom of fear (and favour)
I know full well who your comment was aimed at, Ralph, and you are right of course that I don’t consider his petty rant to be an example of “reasoned argument” or anything I would associate with “elan”.
Maybe you could get Ed or Alice or Trixie to explain to you what “irony” means and how that relates to my post. From what I remember of The Honeymooners, I’d recommend Alice. Her sarcasm also tended to fly right over Ralph’s head.
Kingdom of fear (and favour)
Michael Wilson, my comment was on “a thai” and the ad hominem attack. I doubt you’d consider that “elan” and “reasoned argument”, but I might be wrong.
Kingdom of fear (and favour)
No country has ever attained freedom and justice without the bravery and the courage of its citizens, ready to face danger in order to free themselves from tyranny . Sooner or later the people of Thailand will have to rise against the royals and the generals who enslave them
How Myanmar’s ‘national races’ trumped citizenship
The Rohingya are an ethnic minority subject to persecution, crimes against humanity, and even genocide. They have always lived in Rakhine State, indeed all of Arakan’s past rulers have been Rohingya. Unless Myanmar ceases its genocide against this nation the International Community will have no choice but to intervene on humanitarian grounds. (doubleplusgoodthink)
Kingdom of fear (and favour)
Interesting perspective Ralph.
When it comes to Thai issues, especially anything to do with either the monarchy or the junta, NM publishes comment after comment, some agonizingly long and ill-informed, that essentially all say the same thing.
Someone comes along and says the opposite with as much elan, as much reasoned argument, and in much fewer words, and you complain about lack of moderation.
Oh irony, where is thy sting?
Kingdom of fear (and favour)
you are an idiot. if you are a westerner as your name suggests i would take a more realistic view of the gamut of thai royalty/politics. As a westerner it behooves you to defend democracy, not condone the antithesis.