Hi there,
My name is Khine and I’m Burmese. I’ve lived overseas for the past 20 years but would return to Burma every year for a visit.
The past 2 years however, I decided to set time aside to pursue my interest in WWII sites in Burma and did some research on my own while I lived in the States. (I am now back in Burma).
I’ve traveled with a few American veterans on the Burma Road and traveled on the Ledo Road with two Americans in January. I’m planning to do it again, this time to get to Pangsau Pass from Shingbwiyang in Burma. No one is allowed to cross the border at Pangsau into India or from India into Burma.
My webiste is something to promote awareness of Burma and of the WWII sites I’ve visited so far. I am not a travel agent although I work with one to help me organize the arrangements.
I have to look into this Nathu La pass.. Thanks for the info.
Sincerely,
[…] Earlier this month NewMandala commented on the recapture of a grey wolf that had escaped from Chiang Mai’s Night Safari. The head of the Night Safari (and ex-Royal Forest Department supremo) Plodprasop Suraswadi had christened the wolf Lhong – “a Thai word for lost.” NewMandala is now sad to report that Lhong has passed away. The Canadian grey wolf died over a week ago but reports have only filtered through to the Bangkok Post today. Another blot on the unhappy history of the Night Safari. We can only hope that Australia’s koala’s are coping better. […]
[…] Further to my post of June 26, Bangkok remains awash with yellow every Monday. I can also report, with some authority, that the city’s major wholesale clothing markets remain stocked with hundreds of thousands of yellow shirts. I am not exaggerating! […]
I may be mistaken – or may have never paid enough attention – but there is no “sign” to mark this Burmese border in a similar way. The only Burmese signs, and they are unequivocal in force and intent, remind everybody that this territory (the southern Shan State) is part of the “Union of Myanmar” (Myanma Pedonzu). The Burmese have other important national borders to mark – and many internal ones, too – where all possible effort goes in to ensuring that the national territory is not whittled away by insurgency and “destructive elements”. Plus, for the Burmese, the border at Tachilek – Mae Sai is less territorially significant. It cannot be claimed as the (eastern, southern, etc) “most” anything.
I enjoyed your explanation of possible reasons for retaining such refurbished “Siamese” signage. We both know that some people have never been happy with the 20th century change of name from Siam to Thailand. Some even consider the new name a kind of Tai colonial fantasy. Are you saying that this “Siamese” sign marks a different kind of nostalgia? Is it a yearning for the good ol’ days of “trans-border” Siam? Does this encompass the Southern Shan State? Is that the kind of politics of ethno-nationalism that the sign declares?
Other countries and places do, as you say, have more than one commonly used name. At least in English, using “Burma” or using “Myanmar” is largely a question of aesthetics, allegiance and (historical?) politics.
Could we conclude that this Thai/Siamese sign follows that same pattern?
I suppose that in Thai notion of thier nation, saying ‘Siam’ in Thai provides a sense of Thai-nees rather than saying ‘Thailand’. My initial assumptions are because the term ‘Thai’ and Thailand’ were termed by the other and not the words we called ourselves. Another assumption is it may be a way to indicate that this territoty has long belonged to Siam before our country was named ‘Thailand’ as before the Anglo-Franco treaties and before we had survey technology in this region. We had a blured national boundary at that period. Therefore, I think in this particular context, naming ‘Siam’ is make more sense. Again, it makes sense to say Thailand in English because some farangs (foreigners) don’t recognize ‘Siam’ but the Thai do.
In modern Thai now, the notion of Siam has had less significant to the new generation since we have Thai national anthem. I think place names like Siam square and Siam discovery are not related to nationalism but the northernmost, southernmost and the highest point at Doi Inthanon, Chiangmai are.
Is there any other similar cases in other country? Whatabout the sign at the other side of Myanmar? They also have many names… Pegu, Burma, Myanmar.
I am sure that it does have something to do with the claims and ideologies that you mention. But, to play devil\’s advocate, why doesn\’t it say, in Thai, \”The northernmost point of Thailand\”?
I know that we still have \”Siam Square\” and \”Siam Discovery\” among other similiarly \”Siamese\” contemporary place names. But in this specific context the Thai says \”Siam\” and the English says \”Thailand\”. Is this incongruous? Is there a good explanation for this kind of usage? Particularly at such a high profile site?
I am also intrigued by the idea of \”amalgamating the otherness within the Thai geopolitic\”? Is a sign that says \”Siam\” a good way of doing that?
It is very interesting ethnographic writing from the view of outsider. Eberhardt chose to interpret Shan life cycle through their religious beliefs and rituals embodying thier everyday life. I think this is one way of seeing ethnic self interpretation amongst other dimensions such as socio-politic, nationalism and so on. To me, this view sheds the light on further thought of how this interpretation relates to other realms of my interest such as environmental ethics and aesthetics of everyday life which I believe that they all are crucially interrelated according to the Buddhist thought.
Well, I think it is one of many ways Siamese claim of their political territory and nationalism ideology as we can also see a sign post at the most southern of Siam at Betong district in Yala province. If we study Siamese history carefuly, the name ‘Thailand’ came after political reform in 1900s and Siamese came after the Tai empire in 12th AD. Therefore, this is a way od showing our pride to amalgamate the otherness within Thai geopolitic.
Letter to the Editor from Chiangmai Mail, 5 August 2006:
Loopy protestors
I found it amusing that the protesters performing their mumbo-jumbo magic rituals against Sondhi and PAD should have done it outside Suan Prung hospital. Next time they should move inside the grounds of the hospital and perhaps we could get the authorities to slam the gates behind them.
You were not around in the 1960s when Australian Sundays were ‘dry’ but as long as you had driven at least 30 miles, you were considered a ‘bone fide traveller’ and entitled to quench your thirst at the pub. A boon for the village pubs which did a roaring Sunday trade ( no doubt sadly reflected in the accident statistics from the 30 mile home trips).
\”The Criminal Court has asked the Crime Suppression Division to trace the identities of those who had posted strong criticisms against the court on Web boards. Than Boonyatulanon, secretary to the Criminal Court chief justice, said he asked CSD commander Pol Maj Gen Winai Thongsong to trace the IP addresses and find who were the ones who post the comments against the court after the court found the three election commissions guilty.
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Stilwell Road: Back on Track?
Hi there,
My name is Khine and I’m Burmese. I’ve lived overseas for the past 20 years but would return to Burma every year for a visit.
The past 2 years however, I decided to set time aside to pursue my interest in WWII sites in Burma and did some research on my own while I lived in the States. (I am now back in Burma).
I’ve traveled with a few American veterans on the Burma Road and traveled on the Ledo Road with two Americans in January. I’m planning to do it again, this time to get to Pangsau Pass from Shingbwiyang in Burma. No one is allowed to cross the border at Pangsau into India or from India into Burma.
My webiste is something to promote awareness of Burma and of the WWII sites I’ve visited so far. I am not a travel agent although I work with one to help me organize the arrangements.
I have to look into this Nathu La pass.. Thanks for the info.
Sincerely,
A Paragon of Uncertainty
[…] As I wrote on August 20, in this year of spectacular upheaval and instability, nobody can even guess what might happen next! […]
Plodprasop and the spirits
[…] Earlier this month NewMandala commented on the recapture of a grey wolf that had escaped from Chiang Mai’s Night Safari. The head of the Night Safari (and ex-Royal Forest Department supremo) Plodprasop Suraswadi had christened the wolf Lhong – “a Thai word for lost.” NewMandala is now sad to report that Lhong has passed away. The Canadian grey wolf died over a week ago but reports have only filtered through to the Bangkok Post today. Another blot on the unhappy history of the Night Safari. We can only hope that Australia’s koala’s are coping better. […]
Monday = Yellow
[…] Further to my post of June 26, Bangkok remains awash with yellow every Monday. I can also report, with some authority, that the city’s major wholesale clothing markets remain stocked with hundreds of thousands of yellow shirts. I am not exaggerating! […]
Siamese Northern Exposure
Thanks again, P’ Tum,
I may be mistaken – or may have never paid enough attention – but there is no “sign” to mark this Burmese border in a similar way. The only Burmese signs, and they are unequivocal in force and intent, remind everybody that this territory (the southern Shan State) is part of the “Union of Myanmar” (Myanma Pedonzu). The Burmese have other important national borders to mark – and many internal ones, too – where all possible effort goes in to ensuring that the national territory is not whittled away by insurgency and “destructive elements”. Plus, for the Burmese, the border at Tachilek – Mae Sai is less territorially significant. It cannot be claimed as the (eastern, southern, etc) “most” anything.
I enjoyed your explanation of possible reasons for retaining such refurbished “Siamese” signage. We both know that some people have never been happy with the 20th century change of name from Siam to Thailand. Some even consider the new name a kind of Tai colonial fantasy. Are you saying that this “Siamese” sign marks a different kind of nostalgia? Is it a yearning for the good ol’ days of “trans-border” Siam? Does this encompass the Southern Shan State? Is that the kind of politics of ethno-nationalism that the sign declares?
Other countries and places do, as you say, have more than one commonly used name. At least in English, using “Burma” or using “Myanmar” is largely a question of aesthetics, allegiance and (historical?) politics.
Could we conclude that this Thai/Siamese sign follows that same pattern?
NSF
Siamese Northern Exposure
I suppose that in Thai notion of thier nation, saying ‘Siam’ in Thai provides a sense of Thai-nees rather than saying ‘Thailand’. My initial assumptions are because the term ‘Thai’ and Thailand’ were termed by the other and not the words we called ourselves. Another assumption is it may be a way to indicate that this territoty has long belonged to Siam before our country was named ‘Thailand’ as before the Anglo-Franco treaties and before we had survey technology in this region. We had a blured national boundary at that period. Therefore, I think in this particular context, naming ‘Siam’ is make more sense. Again, it makes sense to say Thailand in English because some farangs (foreigners) don’t recognize ‘Siam’ but the Thai do.
In modern Thai now, the notion of Siam has had less significant to the new generation since we have Thai national anthem. I think place names like Siam square and Siam discovery are not related to nationalism but the northernmost, southernmost and the highest point at Doi Inthanon, Chiangmai are.
Is there any other similar cases in other country? Whatabout the sign at the other side of Myanmar? They also have many names… Pegu, Burma, Myanmar.
Tum
Siamese Northern Exposure
Thanks Tum,
I am sure that it does have something to do with the claims and ideologies that you mention. But, to play devil\’s advocate, why doesn\’t it say, in Thai, \”The northernmost point of Thailand\”?
I know that we still have \”Siam Square\” and \”Siam Discovery\” among other similiarly \”Siamese\” contemporary place names. But in this specific context the Thai says \”Siam\” and the English says \”Thailand\”. Is this incongruous? Is there a good explanation for this kind of usage? Particularly at such a high profile site?
I am also intrigued by the idea of \”amalgamating the otherness within the Thai geopolitic\”? Is a sign that says \”Siam\” a good way of doing that?
Any more ideas?
NSF
Gardening or farming?
But don’t forget that chemicals can have bad effects on the health of farmers and consumers.
Celebrating with the Shan
Thanks for the comment Tum. I agree that it is very good ethnographic writing!
“Ethnic or religious cleavages?”
Thanks, very useful!
Celebrating with the Shan
It is very interesting ethnographic writing from the view of outsider. Eberhardt chose to interpret Shan life cycle through their religious beliefs and rituals embodying thier everyday life. I think this is one way of seeing ethnic self interpretation amongst other dimensions such as socio-politic, nationalism and so on. To me, this view sheds the light on further thought of how this interpretation relates to other realms of my interest such as environmental ethics and aesthetics of everyday life which I believe that they all are crucially interrelated according to the Buddhist thought.
Tum
Siamese Northern Exposure
Well, I think it is one of many ways Siamese claim of their political territory and nationalism ideology as we can also see a sign post at the most southern of Siam at Betong district in Yala province. If we study Siamese history carefuly, the name ‘Thailand’ came after political reform in 1900s and Siamese came after the Tai empire in 12th AD. Therefore, this is a way od showing our pride to amalgamate the otherness within Thai geopolitic.
The arboreal nation
Crikey! this is much more effective than greenies chaining themselves to trees…
Queen’s Birthday and Mother’s Day
…And the New Mandala mothers say, ‘Thanks for the kind thoughts’. An unexpected mother’s day greeting is rather nice.
A New Home for New Mandala Shots
The passionate essay on the Range Rover ad and also readers’ comments are well worth reading. Thanks for the link.
The Cultural Guardians and the Condom Brand
Just to update the score on this developing story, one of Australia’s most prominent broadsheets has just run the Reuters piece in its online “health and fitness” section (http://www.smh.com.au/news/childrens-health/good-penetration-condoms-too-racy/2006/08/09/1154802945387.html).
A curse on the enemies of Thaksin!
Letter to the Editor from Chiangmai Mail, 5 August 2006:
Loopy protestors
I found it amusing that the protesters performing their mumbo-jumbo magic rituals against Sondhi and PAD should have done it outside Suan Prung hospital. Next time they should move inside the grounds of the hospital and perhaps we could get the authorities to slam the gates behind them.
Chiang Mai Mike
Wrapping up Social Policy
You were not around in the 1960s when Australian Sundays were ‘dry’ but as long as you had driven at least 30 miles, you were considered a ‘bone fide traveller’ and entitled to quench your thirst at the pub. A boon for the village pubs which did a roaring Sunday trade ( no doubt sadly reflected in the accident statistics from the 30 mile home trips).
Brown Out
Thanks darling. I take it you could not find the supplier of the t-shirts. Pity.
Love, Mum
Does the punishment fit the crime?
From today\\\’s Nation online:
\”The Criminal Court has asked the Crime Suppression Division to trace the identities of those who had posted strong criticisms against the court on Web boards. Than Boonyatulanon, secretary to the Criminal Court chief justice, said he asked CSD commander Pol Maj Gen Winai Thongsong to trace the IP addresses and find who were the ones who post the comments against the court after the court found the three election commissions guilty.
The Nation