Be careful, Adrew. Reactionary conservatives accuse respected academic of faking evidence while researching controversial issue, creating fear, uncertainty, and doubt in the academic’s integrity and the analytical perspective that he is advocating….
Cuba isn’t alone in importing doctors and equipment to examine its Great Leader.
Wasn’t a farang doctor imported to perform the recent surgery on our own Thai king’s back? I remember reading an interview he gave.
Good thing nobody told the surgical team to be self-sufficient, or else the King would now be in a wheelchair and we’d be crawling under the feet of Sia O! ๐
Off-topic, but I’m chipping in with our anonymous coward here. Vietnam, for instance, has literacy rates on par with Thailand, dozens of universities (and several fine ones), and the Vietnamese students at my university made most of their Thai classmates look like lazy idiots (myself included).
No need for Sen to “imagine a state providing hospitals, schools, and other social services without a capitalist economy first producing the surplusโ – he should just go and see it happen with his own eyes.
Srithanonchai, I’m not arguing with your statements at all.
But Prof. Sen is, unfortunately, bull$hitting us here.
Cuba has plenty of hospitals and doctors. Per capita ratios are on par with any country in the western world and life expectancy and infant mortality rates on par with the US.
Cuba also has plenty of schools and teachers – and some of the best literacy rates in latin america. And this is from a nation that not only kicked out the gringo capitalists, but kicked out the Jesuit sodomizing educators as well.
Don’t let your ideology blind you to the truth – communism might have been a failure in a lot of fronts, but it did heal the sick and teach the young to read.
In defence of Andrew, I do not think he intended this post to be treated as his ‘research’.
FYI, a few days ago, I advised Nich that I liked Andrew’s previous article on what villagers had to say, and I suggested that it would be interesting to hear more about what rural and other ordinary thai folk thought about events in Thaland (as opposed to the many posters on this site, who are clearly not ordinary thai folk).
Nich indicated that he would pass on my suggestion to Andrew, which may have prompted todays post.
Mr Vichai – are you surprised at Mr. Walker’s sad excuse for research? It’s only because “Thai studies” is such an academic backwater that this sort of thing is taken remotely seriously. If looked at through any serious critical lens, there neither “Thaksinomics” nor “sufficiency economy” stand up to scrutiny. “Sufficiency economy” is a mishmash of platitudes that can mean anything you want it to mean on an operational basis whereas “Thaksinomics” was raft of debt-based schemes to boost rural money supply that ignored a wealth of global experience in rural development efforts. Neither have any hard data to back up any of their claims. Given the wooly and vague pronouncements of “sufficiency” this is understandable, and UNDP reports notwithstanding, no one would give it a second thought were it not for its origin in the unassailable figure of HMK.
That Thaksinomics has little to no empricial verification is entirely the fault of weak academics like Mr. Walker. No one would expect the originators to come up with objective evalution, and indeed they never have. They trot out figures of poverty reduction and rural growth as if their policies had anything to do with these gains as opposed to a rise in global commodity prices and general economic growth in the face of historically low capital costs and high liquidity. Lazy “researchers” take these at face value and support their “analysis” by interviewing various individuals who agree, because as we know, concurrence equals truth. Perhaps Mr. Walker’s funniest post was how the village fund program has been successful based on his observations of exactly one village!
The most objective and fact-based analysis of any of Mr. Thaksin’s programs that I’ve seen was a British Medical Journal report about the inevitable insolvency of the 30-B health care program – an outcome entirely predictable based on health financing trials in a wide variety of countries.
But what can you expect from someone whose entire political outlook is based on elections, however flawed, and nothing else, ignoring civil rights in the equation of democracy?
The villagers are much smarter than Srithanonchai or Andrew Walker give them credit for. That village woman gave Andrew the reply he was begging for . . that was smart to get rid of the pest.
When it comes to feeding the stomach and getting the children basic education and other tools to reach their potential and to encourag their children to excel, mothers don’t refer to Sufficiency Economy or Thaksinomics but to sweet common sense.
But anthropologist Andrew Walker will trek all the way to the boondocks in search of the Holy Grail.
anonymous: Do you actually know what happened to the glorious SU and the entire eastern bloc some years ago, and what has been going on in countries such as India, China, and Vietnam? As for Cuba, it is one of the most run-down countries of the world, and even had to import the equipment plus doctor from Spain to examine its great leader. If you want to argue at this level, one can as well stop talking altogether. Maybe, a look into Sen’s “Developmednt as Freedom” could help, as could reading newspapers regularly.
Surely, sufficiency economy, at an individual level, doesn’t support initiative and expanding one’s opportunities. After all, it stresses to be content with the modest means one has.
Why did you NOT challenge that wonderful village woman why she believed ‘Sufficiency Economy’ was meant to discourage the rurals from seeking educational or job advancement at the cities?
As an eminent anthropologist and academician Andrew Walker your curiousity should have been peeked by such eloquence coming from the boondocks.
And yet you were sufficiently sated by THAT woman’s suffiency reply . .
knock knock anybody home? Andrew wants your learned opinion on this subject of Sufficiency . . . . .
The distortion continues….it seems vested interest contributes to the distortion (on all sides).
Poor stay poor, Rich get richer is the way of the world – irrespective of whether the country is democratic, capitalist, globalized or not.
I fail to see how hard working and diligent rural students is in any way incompatible with the sufficiency theory of moderation, reasonableness, immunity etc.
Any proponents of the sufficieny economy who argue otherwise should be taken to task and exposed as hippocrits.
You went all the way the boondocks and chased around the villages of Thailand for days (or is it weeks?) to trace one woman to give THAT interpretation of HMK’s Sufficiency Economy? Surely she could have told you too what she thought of Thaksinomics.
After all now Thaksin has come out at Time magazine openly praising his Toxinomics versus HMKI’s Sufficiency. And right on time your village woman gave her wonderful view on that very subject.
I really believe you are not earning your ‘sufficiency stipend’ from the paymaster Andrew Walker.
Prime Minister Surayud has just announced that in his international media interviews, Thaksin discredited His Majesty the King’s sufficiency philosophy.
Since the broadcasts were censored, I have no other option other than to believe our Premier. Death to Thaksin and all King-haters!! ๐
Srithanonchai, weren’t the soviet union and cuba able to provide hospitals, schools, and other social services without relying on a capitalist economy derived surplus? Indeed, Communist Cuba had some the best healthcare and public education in nearly all of Latin America.
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The poor stay poor, the rich stay rich
This woman has a shrewd mind.
The have’s are likely to try to protect their position
from the envious have not’s.
Bangkok is not Thailand. One should never forget it.
Unfortunately some have convinced themselves that it was…
The poor stay poor, the rich stay rich
Be careful, Adrew. Reactionary conservatives accuse respected academic of faking evidence while researching controversial issue, creating fear, uncertainty, and doubt in the academic’s integrity and the analytical perspective that he is advocating….
Don’t forget Michael Bellesiles!
Defending the sufficiency line
Cuba isn’t alone in importing doctors and equipment to examine its Great Leader.
Wasn’t a farang doctor imported to perform the recent surgery on our own Thai king’s back? I remember reading an interview he gave.
Good thing nobody told the surgical team to be self-sufficient, or else the King would now be in a wheelchair and we’d be crawling under the feet of Sia O! ๐
Defending the sufficiency line
Off-topic, but I’m chipping in with our anonymous coward here. Vietnam, for instance, has literacy rates on par with Thailand, dozens of universities (and several fine ones), and the Vietnamese students at my university made most of their Thai classmates look like lazy idiots (myself included).
No need for Sen to “imagine a state providing hospitals, schools, and other social services without a capitalist economy first producing the surplusโ – he should just go and see it happen with his own eyes.
Defending the sufficiency line
Srithanonchai, I’m not arguing with your statements at all.
But Prof. Sen is, unfortunately, bull$hitting us here.
Cuba has plenty of hospitals and doctors. Per capita ratios are on par with any country in the western world and life expectancy and infant mortality rates on par with the US.
Cuba also has plenty of schools and teachers – and some of the best literacy rates in latin america. And this is from a nation that not only kicked out the gringo capitalists, but kicked out the Jesuit sodomizing educators as well.
Don’t let your ideology blind you to the truth – communism might have been a failure in a lot of fronts, but it did heal the sick and teach the young to read.
The poor stay poor, the rich stay rich
Andrew, would you mind sharing some details on this woman? Age and socio-economic status would help me interpret her statements.
The poor stay poor, the rich stay rich
In defence of Andrew, I do not think he intended this post to be treated as his ‘research’.
FYI, a few days ago, I advised Nich that I liked Andrew’s previous article on what villagers had to say, and I suggested that it would be interesting to hear more about what rural and other ordinary thai folk thought about events in Thaland (as opposed to the many posters on this site, who are clearly not ordinary thai folk).
Nich indicated that he would pass on my suggestion to Andrew, which may have prompted todays post.
The poor stay poor, the rich stay rich
Vichai, has Andrew failed you before?
It’s ok, there are other professors who are much more disposed towards taking bribes for sufficient degrees!
The poor stay poor, the rich stay rich
Mr Vichai – are you surprised at Mr. Walker’s sad excuse for research? It’s only because “Thai studies” is such an academic backwater that this sort of thing is taken remotely seriously. If looked at through any serious critical lens, there neither “Thaksinomics” nor “sufficiency economy” stand up to scrutiny. “Sufficiency economy” is a mishmash of platitudes that can mean anything you want it to mean on an operational basis whereas “Thaksinomics” was raft of debt-based schemes to boost rural money supply that ignored a wealth of global experience in rural development efforts. Neither have any hard data to back up any of their claims. Given the wooly and vague pronouncements of “sufficiency” this is understandable, and UNDP reports notwithstanding, no one would give it a second thought were it not for its origin in the unassailable figure of HMK.
That Thaksinomics has little to no empricial verification is entirely the fault of weak academics like Mr. Walker. No one would expect the originators to come up with objective evalution, and indeed they never have. They trot out figures of poverty reduction and rural growth as if their policies had anything to do with these gains as opposed to a rise in global commodity prices and general economic growth in the face of historically low capital costs and high liquidity. Lazy “researchers” take these at face value and support their “analysis” by interviewing various individuals who agree, because as we know, concurrence equals truth. Perhaps Mr. Walker’s funniest post was how the village fund program has been successful based on his observations of exactly one village!
The most objective and fact-based analysis of any of Mr. Thaksin’s programs that I’ve seen was a British Medical Journal report about the inevitable insolvency of the 30-B health care program – an outcome entirely predictable based on health financing trials in a wide variety of countries.
But what can you expect from someone whose entire political outlook is based on elections, however flawed, and nothing else, ignoring civil rights in the equation of democracy?
The poor stay poor, the rich stay rich
Srithanonchai: Being content with your modest means, does not mean you cannot try to improve (with moderation, reasonableness, immunity).
I have not seen HMK advise people do do nothing and show no initiative.
The poor stay poor, the rich stay rich
The villagers are much smarter than Srithanonchai or Andrew Walker give them credit for. That village woman gave Andrew the reply he was begging for . . that was smart to get rid of the pest.
When it comes to feeding the stomach and getting the children basic education and other tools to reach their potential and to encourag their children to excel, mothers don’t refer to Sufficiency Economy or Thaksinomics but to sweet common sense.
But anthropologist Andrew Walker will trek all the way to the boondocks in search of the Holy Grail.
The poor stay poor, the rich stay rich
HMK’s sufficiency economy does not exactly encourage people to have “ideas above their station”.
The business of sufficiency economy
ัโะัโะทัโโัโะฑัโฃะัโะซัโฃะัโะฉัโะฎัโะตัโฃะัโะฑัโโัโะฝัโะัโะงัโโกัโฃะัโะคัโโกัโะปัโะฑัโโัโะฒัโะัโะทัโโัโะฑัโะทัโฃะัโโ ัโะฅัโฃะัโะฝัโะัโะัโโคัโะคัโะคัโฃะัโะทัโะฒัโะฅัโะฉัโฃะัโะฝัโะ ัโฃะัโะฑัโฃะัโฃะัโะัโฃะัโฃะัโะัโโัโฃะัโะฝัโะงัโโัโะัโะฝัโะฒัโฃะัโโัโะัโะัโโขัโฃะัโะัโฃะัโะัโฃะัโโัโะฉัโโัโะฒัโะัโโัโะปัโะฉัโะคัโฃะัโะทัโฃะ ัโฃะัโะฑัโฃะัโะฝัโะฒัโฃะัโโัโะัโะฉัโโัโฃะัโะฉัโะัโโัโะฑัโโกัโะณัโโัโะชัโะชัโะซัโะณัโโัโะัโโัโะจัโโคัโะซัโฃะัโะฅัโะฒัโฃะัโะฉัโฃะัโะงัโะฒัโฃะัโะฑัโฃะัโฃะัโะคัโฃะัโะปัโะณัโะฝัโะ
Defending the sufficiency line
anonymous: Do you actually know what happened to the glorious SU and the entire eastern bloc some years ago, and what has been going on in countries such as India, China, and Vietnam? As for Cuba, it is one of the most run-down countries of the world, and even had to import the equipment plus doctor from Spain to examine its great leader. If you want to argue at this level, one can as well stop talking altogether. Maybe, a look into Sen’s “Developmednt as Freedom” could help, as could reading newspapers regularly.
The poor stay poor, the rich stay rich
Surely, sufficiency economy, at an individual level, doesn’t support initiative and expanding one’s opportunities. After all, it stresses to be content with the modest means one has.
The poor stay poor, the rich stay rich
Why did you NOT challenge that wonderful village woman why she believed ‘Sufficiency Economy’ was meant to discourage the rurals from seeking educational or job advancement at the cities?
As an eminent anthropologist and academician Andrew Walker your curiousity should have been peeked by such eloquence coming from the boondocks.
And yet you were sufficiently sated by THAT woman’s suffiency reply . .
knock knock anybody home? Andrew wants your learned opinion on this subject of Sufficiency . . . . .
The poor stay poor, the rich stay rich
The distortion continues….it seems vested interest contributes to the distortion (on all sides).
Poor stay poor, Rich get richer is the way of the world – irrespective of whether the country is democratic, capitalist, globalized or not.
I fail to see how hard working and diligent rural students is in any way incompatible with the sufficiency theory of moderation, reasonableness, immunity etc.
Any proponents of the sufficieny economy who argue otherwise should be taken to task and exposed as hippocrits.
The poor stay poor, the rich stay rich
Awwww shucks Andrew Walker!
You went all the way the boondocks and chased around the villages of Thailand for days (or is it weeks?) to trace one woman to give THAT interpretation of HMK’s Sufficiency Economy? Surely she could have told you too what she thought of Thaksinomics.
After all now Thaksin has come out at Time magazine openly praising his Toxinomics versus HMKI’s Sufficiency. And right on time your village woman gave her wonderful view on that very subject.
I really believe you are not earning your ‘sufficiency stipend’ from the paymaster Andrew Walker.
Defending the sufficiency line
Prime Minister Surayud has just announced that in his international media interviews, Thaksin discredited His Majesty the King’s sufficiency philosophy.
Since the broadcasts were censored, I have no other option other than to believe our Premier. Death to Thaksin and all King-haters!! ๐
Defending the sufficiency line
Srithanonchai, weren’t the soviet union and cuba able to provide hospitals, schools, and other social services without relying on a capitalist economy derived surplus? Indeed, Communist Cuba had some the best healthcare and public education in nearly all of Latin America.