[…] well established universities with a good name (even if some of their students don’t know how to┬ dress in public!) and provincial “Johnny-come-latelys”. International degrees should, of course, […]
The hypocrisy of Western Christians asking for Burmese self determination, whilst lamenting human rights abuses committed against them for pushing an agenda is pretty amusing. The right to self determination is a fundamental human right according to the charter. Yet of course, influencing that national self determination before it happens is only natural and correct!
Surely there are far too many fingers squirming to be in the Burmese pie for there to be any sort of resolution to ‘international community’ fears regarding human rights abuses and ethnic discrimination. Although it is painful to watch vicariously on our TV screens, are these not the natural growing pains that a nation must go through to modernise without colonisation? Without going through a similar historical process as our West; how can Burmese ever hope to participate in an international community that respects their sovereignty and also doesn’t leave Burma in debt, forever playing a futile IMF interest payment catch up?
Or did I miss the meeting where it was decided that we wanted to keep going with colonising, just a little bit more subtly this time? Hm…
21Jan & Anon – your suggestions are funny(in a good way).
How about make citizenship&voting right to be “earn”, like in Starship Trooper novel. Or a more subtle way to discreetly separate the rural mass from politic.
Vichai – your suggestion is Utopian society. Dont get me wrong, I know it’s suggestion with good intent.
But it would not work in the real world. More likely the “candidate” would buy up “kam-nan” and “local police” to blackmail villager to vote on their favor.
Also, even if it work, it is still the same problem all over. How to distinguish between direct “vote-buying” and “promising” village fund(hence, populist policy)? Fundamentally, Democracy have it’s drawn back.
My suggestion would be, pass the law to punish politician who cannot deliver on their promises. That would seriously make politician “work” for their vote.
If anyone is interested in learning more about Christianity among the Chin, Lian Hmung Sakhong’s book, In Search of Chin Identity, is partially available on Google Books. It only includes excerpts of the chapters, but there’s still a sizeable amount of reading there. I haven’t gotten through much of it myself, but it explores the relationship between Christianity and national identity among the Chin – an issue which I’m sure has parallels among the other ethnic groups of Burma.
That was an insightful article that you linked to, not only regarding the failure of Mahachon, but also regarding the success of TRT.
But it’s worth noting that while you can’t make a deal with a tiger in a smoky backroom, and there’s no point giving a tiger a lecture, you can use tanks, guns, and propaganda to make it cower.
Taxi Driver, of course you are right with your “birth on Saturday” proposal – given that fact that me and my wife are both born on Saturdays, but the farmers wife would of course only have one vote because she would have to vote where her birth was registered (so only second-generation Bangkokians would get the four votes) – and of course she would have to register at her Amphur four weeks in advance to get even the one vote. 😉
What is the point of the prophecy nonsense? If you and Anek know for sure that the constitution will be written to politically marginalize the masses and give all the power to the elites, then just come out and say it and stop pretending Anek is like Moses with the Ten Commandments. What is the point of playing cutesy games and jerking the readers around? I know Thai journalists love to speculate and love to do read between the lines analysis, but as a reader and a customer, I think it is stupid. If I am in the minority concerning this type of “journalism” then so be it.
And what about Anek’s analysis?
First, Thailand’s political problems are not the fault of the masses.
Do you really believe that the root of Thailand’s political instability is that the dopey peasantry can’t resist the populist goodies the state hands out as if those goodies were an irresistible magic spell?
Second, even if you took away all political rights and the populist goodies from the immoral and undisciplined idiotic peasantry and gave all political and economic power to the morally pure and incorruptible elite, do you really think a peasant free polity would change anything in Thailand for the better?
Thailand’s political problems, especially concerning corruption, cronyism, patron-clientship, gift giving, existed as part of the Thai state and Thai social structures long before any kind of democracy was given to the common folks. All those things have been part of Thai culture and Thai politics for hundreds of years.
What will be written in the Constitution then, now that Anek has warned us that gatanyu and boon koon shall be outlawed from Thai political culture, especially when it comes to political activities pertaining to the peasantry?
Yet Thai political culture shall be sustained for the elite because they are moral, educated and disciplined?
Do you seriously believe this bullshit?
Is this the cryptic warning that you keep hinting at from your beloved prophet?
I love Anek. He is arguing that the intrinisic part of what makes Thai people Thai, boon khun and gatanyu, is the source of all the problems in Thailand, yet the elite has been sustaining their patron client relationships on these principles for hundreds of years.
But, of course, it is easier blame the peasants for coups and military dictatorships and Thaksin. They are an easy scapegoat just like the farang are always scapegoat as well.
Let me get this: So when a peasant rewards his MP with a vote for bringing benefits to the local community that peasant is a wild eyed ignoramus under the magic spell of populist goodies and his political rights should be stripped away from him, yet when a Thai political big shot from the nation’s elite trades shares on inside information he got from a buddy or cooks the books to embezzle from the state or pays thousand of Baht to get his kids into a good university or pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a top promotion, I guess those things will be sustained as part of elite democracy while the peasants continually get fucked with sufficiency theory nonsense that every member of the elite talks about but never practices.
Third, if Anek is an important player and thinker, as you suggest, his analysis wouldn’t be perpetually wrong and he wouldn’t be a perpetual loser.
If he knows something now for sure, like what will be in the constitution, that doesn’t make him a prophet. That makes him an insider who knows the facts as they are being written.
As a journalist, you shouldn’t be playing stupid games about cryptic warnings and prophesies. The reader doesn’t depend on the press for signs. He depends on the press for the truth.
This is serious shit. Millions of peoples lives are at stake. There is no time for games. You should be reporting the truth
instead of your prophecy bullshit.
“Once one party offers people the moon, then its rivals must offer the moon and the stars. ”
Every time I hear someone deride a Thaksin program for the poor, some of which deserve derision, it always end ups as an elitist rant.
Why is it that so many city folks see any nod towards the rural folks by politicans as offering the moon and the stars and then describe the nod as “populism”? I am no fan of Thaksin, but he did understand that a political powerbase could include the votes of the rural poor, so he threw them some bones. Certainly some of those bones were ill-conceived, even rotten, or were programs that were very poorly implemented. But none the less, he understood that he could better court the rural voters with longer-term government programs rather than short-time methods such as having the banks in the smaller provincial towns run out of small denomination bills the day before a national vote.
Prophet does not mean ‘someone who thinks like me.’ It means someone who others believe can predict the future. Anek is worth reading because his thinking is a sophisticated version of the thinking of a lot of urban middle class people, and of a lot of people who are going to control the immediate political future. He’s not just a thinker, but a player, and possibly an important one. You can scorn it because you don’t like it, but so what? The point of writing an article like this is as a warning. You can imagine Thailand’s political future is how you would love it to be, or you can look for the signs.
Democracy is really not complicated at all, for so long as their is enforcement, earnest and undiscriminating.
Pass a really punishing law that would jail anybody caught selling their votes . . . and complement that law with a reward system that encourages people to inform on people they suspect of selling their votes. (An even more punishing law would of course be meted to the vote buyers). Better yet, write one clear article in the constitution that clearly states that selling or buying votes is criminal and would be punished by long jail terms, and loss of voting rights.
At election day . . . post handbills at every election booth about the constitutional penaly for selling and buying votes.
Then on or after election day, arrest thousands suspected of selling votes in every changwat and publish that in every newspaper, TV etc.
Once vote buying and vote selling is removed from the election process . . . democracy will bloom.
The Nation (20 Febr.) reports that the CDC’s subcommittee chaired by hard-liner Charan has decided: “Meanwhile, the panel agreed that party-list MPs should be cut from the electoral system as it had been exploited by former ruling parties to pay back their key financial backers with the seats.”
That probably goes against TRT. But TRT’s sole substantial backer, was none else than Thaksin himself, and his wife Pojaman, respectively. And she never even got any position on TRT’s party list! Moreover, this reasoning also does not apply to the Democrats, Chart Thai, and Mahachon, I’d say.
So what is the real logic behind this? Charan used to complain that Thaksin claimed 16/19 million votes for himself. This might be the actual reason. I wonder whether the sub-committee carefully considered all implications of the party-list vote or merely followed some leading members’ prejudices.
21 Jan: That’s a proposal that reflects the inherent logic of the Sonthi/PAD protests. However, to simplify the whole system, why not disenfranchise everybody who does not have at least a BA? In addition, one might consider not counting BAs from Ratchapat “Universities” as well as from Ramkhamhhaeng. This would make the ECT’s work easier. Finally, the voting rights of people with BA, MA, or Prof. who have proven their incompetence or lack of basic democratic values–such as Suraphon, Prinya, Anek, or Nakharin (and all those serving on the NLA, CDA, and CDC)–should be tempirarily suspended by an election court. Dee mai khrap?
And I can only conclude from your collective lack of response to my proposal that you were all born on days other than Saturday. I look down my nose at you lot! 🙂
Too complicated 21Jan. A dumb farmer’s wife who moves from Buriram to Bangkok to work as a maid in a middle class household might end up with 4 votes when she only deserves one! I still reckon my “born on Saturday” system is simpler and less susceptible to rorting.
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In sufficient clothing
[…] well established universities with a good name (even if some of their students don’t know how to┬ dress in public!) and provincial “Johnny-come-latelys”. International degrees should, of course, […]
“Carrying the Cross”: Christians and Burma
The hypocrisy of Western Christians asking for Burmese self determination, whilst lamenting human rights abuses committed against them for pushing an agenda is pretty amusing. The right to self determination is a fundamental human right according to the charter. Yet of course, influencing that national self determination before it happens is only natural and correct!
Stephen McCarthy in his book, The Political Theory of Tyranny in Singapore and Burma: Aristotle and the rhetoric of benevolent despotism, provides a good explanation on the Junta’s promotion of Buddhism being a fear byproduct of Christian and Confucian conspiracy to undermine their authority.
Surely there are far too many fingers squirming to be in the Burmese pie for there to be any sort of resolution to ‘international community’ fears regarding human rights abuses and ethnic discrimination. Although it is painful to watch vicariously on our TV screens, are these not the natural growing pains that a nation must go through to modernise without colonisation? Without going through a similar historical process as our West; how can Burmese ever hope to participate in an international community that respects their sovereignty and also doesn’t leave Burma in debt, forever playing a futile IMF interest payment catch up?
Or did I miss the meeting where it was decided that we wanted to keep going with colonising, just a little bit more subtly this time? Hm…
PS.. sorry for my poor html abilities!
Sore loser
21Jan & Anon – your suggestions are funny(in a good way).
How about make citizenship&voting right to be “earn”, like in Starship Trooper novel. Or a more subtle way to discreetly separate the rural mass from politic.
Vichai – your suggestion is Utopian society. Dont get me wrong, I know it’s suggestion with good intent.
But it would not work in the real world. More likely the “candidate” would buy up “kam-nan” and “local police” to blackmail villager to vote on their favor.
Also, even if it work, it is still the same problem all over. How to distinguish between direct “vote-buying” and “promising” village fund(hence, populist policy)? Fundamentally, Democracy have it’s drawn back.
My suggestion would be, pass the law to punish politician who cannot deliver on their promises. That would seriously make politician “work” for their vote.
“Carrying the Cross”: Christians and Burma
If anyone is interested in learning more about Christianity among the Chin, Lian Hmung Sakhong’s book, In Search of Chin Identity, is partially available on Google Books. It only includes excerpts of the chapters, but there’s still a sizeable amount of reading there. I haven’t gotten through much of it myself, but it explores the relationship between Christianity and national identity among the Chin – an issue which I’m sure has parallels among the other ethnic groups of Burma.
Sore loser
I can understand where both Anek & Tosakan are coming from, but I think both are missing the point.
The tiger blew it by continuing to put it’s faith in Thaksin, the self serving billionaire, who clearly did not have the tigers interests at heart.
Chang Noi on Mahachon
Unfortunately, it also not possible to reason with a tiger.
Chang Noi on Mahachon
That was an insightful article that you linked to, not only regarding the failure of Mahachon, but also regarding the success of TRT.
But it’s worth noting that while you can’t make a deal with a tiger in a smoky backroom, and there’s no point giving a tiger a lecture, you can use tanks, guns, and propaganda to make it cower.
Sore loser
And Srithanonchai, a postdoc or professor would have to pass the HP-Boothe-exam in methodology to get the full number of votes 😉
Sore loser
Taxi Driver, of course you are right with your “birth on Saturday” proposal – given that fact that me and my wife are both born on Saturdays, but the farmers wife would of course only have one vote because she would have to vote where her birth was registered (so only second-generation Bangkokians would get the four votes) – and of course she would have to register at her Amphur four weeks in advance to get even the one vote. 😉
Sore loser
Chang Noi-
What is the point of the prophecy nonsense? If you and Anek know for sure that the constitution will be written to politically marginalize the masses and give all the power to the elites, then just come out and say it and stop pretending Anek is like Moses with the Ten Commandments. What is the point of playing cutesy games and jerking the readers around? I know Thai journalists love to speculate and love to do read between the lines analysis, but as a reader and a customer, I think it is stupid. If I am in the minority concerning this type of “journalism” then so be it.
And what about Anek’s analysis?
First, Thailand’s political problems are not the fault of the masses.
Do you really believe that the root of Thailand’s political instability is that the dopey peasantry can’t resist the populist goodies the state hands out as if those goodies were an irresistible magic spell?
Second, even if you took away all political rights and the populist goodies from the immoral and undisciplined idiotic peasantry and gave all political and economic power to the morally pure and incorruptible elite, do you really think a peasant free polity would change anything in Thailand for the better?
Thailand’s political problems, especially concerning corruption, cronyism, patron-clientship, gift giving, existed as part of the Thai state and Thai social structures long before any kind of democracy was given to the common folks. All those things have been part of Thai culture and Thai politics for hundreds of years.
What will be written in the Constitution then, now that Anek has warned us that gatanyu and boon koon shall be outlawed from Thai political culture, especially when it comes to political activities pertaining to the peasantry?
Yet Thai political culture shall be sustained for the elite because they are moral, educated and disciplined?
Do you seriously believe this bullshit?
Is this the cryptic warning that you keep hinting at from your beloved prophet?
I love Anek. He is arguing that the intrinisic part of what makes Thai people Thai, boon khun and gatanyu, is the source of all the problems in Thailand, yet the elite has been sustaining their patron client relationships on these principles for hundreds of years.
But, of course, it is easier blame the peasants for coups and military dictatorships and Thaksin. They are an easy scapegoat just like the farang are always scapegoat as well.
Let me get this: So when a peasant rewards his MP with a vote for bringing benefits to the local community that peasant is a wild eyed ignoramus under the magic spell of populist goodies and his political rights should be stripped away from him, yet when a Thai political big shot from the nation’s elite trades shares on inside information he got from a buddy or cooks the books to embezzle from the state or pays thousand of Baht to get his kids into a good university or pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a top promotion, I guess those things will be sustained as part of elite democracy while the peasants continually get fucked with sufficiency theory nonsense that every member of the elite talks about but never practices.
Third, if Anek is an important player and thinker, as you suggest, his analysis wouldn’t be perpetually wrong and he wouldn’t be a perpetual loser.
If he knows something now for sure, like what will be in the constitution, that doesn’t make him a prophet. That makes him an insider who knows the facts as they are being written.
As a journalist, you shouldn’t be playing stupid games about cryptic warnings and prophesies. The reader doesn’t depend on the press for signs. He depends on the press for the truth.
This is serious shit. Millions of peoples lives are at stake. There is no time for games. You should be reporting the truth
instead of your prophecy bullshit.
Sore loser
“Once one party offers people the moon, then its rivals must offer the moon and the stars. ”
Every time I hear someone deride a Thaksin program for the poor, some of which deserve derision, it always end ups as an elitist rant.
Why is it that so many city folks see any nod towards the rural folks by politicans as offering the moon and the stars and then describe the nod as “populism”? I am no fan of Thaksin, but he did understand that a political powerbase could include the votes of the rural poor, so he threw them some bones. Certainly some of those bones were ill-conceived, even rotten, or were programs that were very poorly implemented. But none the less, he understood that he could better court the rural voters with longer-term government programs rather than short-time methods such as having the banks in the smaller provincial towns run out of small denomination bills the day before a national vote.
Sore loser
Prophet does not mean ‘someone who thinks like me.’ It means someone who others believe can predict the future. Anek is worth reading because his thinking is a sophisticated version of the thinking of a lot of urban middle class people, and of a lot of people who are going to control the immediate political future. He’s not just a thinker, but a player, and possibly an important one. You can scorn it because you don’t like it, but so what? The point of writing an article like this is as a warning. You can imagine Thailand’s political future is how you would love it to be, or you can look for the signs.
Sore loser
Democracy is really not complicated at all, for so long as their is enforcement, earnest and undiscriminating.
Pass a really punishing law that would jail anybody caught selling their votes . . . and complement that law with a reward system that encourages people to inform on people they suspect of selling their votes. (An even more punishing law would of course be meted to the vote buyers). Better yet, write one clear article in the constitution that clearly states that selling or buying votes is criminal and would be punished by long jail terms, and loss of voting rights.
At election day . . . post handbills at every election booth about the constitutional penaly for selling and buying votes.
Then on or after election day, arrest thousands suspected of selling votes in every changwat and publish that in every newspaper, TV etc.
Once vote buying and vote selling is removed from the election process . . . democracy will bloom.
Sore loser
[…] response to recent discussion on New Mandala about Anek Laothamatas and his Mahachon Party, Chang Noi (of The Nation) has sent me […]
Sore loser
The Nation (20 Febr.) reports that the CDC’s subcommittee chaired by hard-liner Charan has decided: “Meanwhile, the panel agreed that party-list MPs should be cut from the electoral system as it had been exploited by former ruling parties to pay back their key financial backers with the seats.”
That probably goes against TRT. But TRT’s sole substantial backer, was none else than Thaksin himself, and his wife Pojaman, respectively. And she never even got any position on TRT’s party list! Moreover, this reasoning also does not apply to the Democrats, Chart Thai, and Mahachon, I’d say.
So what is the real logic behind this? Charan used to complain that Thaksin claimed 16/19 million votes for himself. This might be the actual reason. I wonder whether the sub-committee carefully considered all implications of the party-list vote or merely followed some leading members’ prejudices.
Sore loser
21 Jan: That’s a proposal that reflects the inherent logic of the Sonthi/PAD protests. However, to simplify the whole system, why not disenfranchise everybody who does not have at least a BA? In addition, one might consider not counting BAs from Ratchapat “Universities” as well as from Ramkhamhhaeng. This would make the ECT’s work easier. Finally, the voting rights of people with BA, MA, or Prof. who have proven their incompetence or lack of basic democratic values–such as Suraphon, Prinya, Anek, or Nakharin (and all those serving on the NLA, CDA, and CDC)–should be tempirarily suspended by an election court. Dee mai khrap?
Sore loser
And I can only conclude from your collective lack of response to my proposal that you were all born on days other than Saturday. I look down my nose at you lot! 🙂
Sore loser
Too complicated 21Jan. A dumb farmer’s wife who moves from Buriram to Bangkok to work as a maid in a middle class household might end up with 4 votes when she only deserves one! I still reckon my “born on Saturday” system is simpler and less susceptible to rorting.
Sore loser
Don’t forget
– King = multiply by 999,999,999
Anek – smarter than Thaksin!
Not neccesarily, serf. You can just seize power with some tanks and guns, and then get the Ministry of Finance to pay off any expenses afterwards.