Just another conference for ‘inter’national academics to add a line to their CV, and just another coup for Thais to endure, why bother to be so complex? (most of you don’t even live in Thailand permanently anyway). I wish someone has guts to speak out loud- ‘what will others think of me if I go?’ Attending or not is to do with your reputation and politics. Drop those ‘academic freedom’, ‘ethics’, or ‘exchange of knowledge’, will you? I got sick reading them.
Staging a protest? Hundreds of Thais gathered at Sanam Luang a few days back but they didn’t even get a headline (how many of you knew this?).
‘Feeling guilty is not a sign of high morality’- applying to whom it may concern.
Lee might have installed an oppressive regime, but it isn’t nearly as bad as the regimes in Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia. But Lee also played a large role in Singapore’s extremely fast economic and human development.
It leaves me asking: what would I rather have, a crappy government, a vibrant economy, and a healthy well educated population, or a crappy government, poverty, and the education standards of Indonesia? I wish there was a third choice, but there aren’t really any in Southeast Asia. Heck, even Japan and Korea produced tons of corruption and several despots during the past 50 years.
So give the guy credit – he might not be the greatest statesman in Asia, but he’s certainly one of the better ones.
The hard working people who dug up that info should be applauded. It is ***so systematic*** that words would merely clutter the description.
Nepotism is a very slippery thing and sometimes disappears into its hole as quickly as it emerges, without a trace.
Take, for instance, the article from the Bangkok Post below (with a little threat of defamation suit kicker, doing honour to Lee Kuan Yew’s innovation).
The BTS was in bankruptcy proceedings and actually looking further into the situation would have cost the main parties money, so the issue disappeared. But the seasoned reporter Nuntawun Polkuamdee did a good job of uncovering the facts.
I’m not sure this is odd or even avoidable. There is a very small, limited elite — by position, title or money — in Cambodia, and they have now had stability for a decade or so, long enough to create a “hi-so” and to raise a next generation thinking about advancing the family interest over generations inside the country, rather than just trying to get out (though I doubt they have given up escape routes).
To this end they have limited choices of who to do business with, whom to call on to get their kids a ministry job, and whom to marry their children to. Realistically speaking, they are not going to marry far beneath themselves.
Perhaps there is some academic theory on elites and intermarriage in societies which maps out just when the society is advanced enough that the utility of such connections means less than absolute skills — which is the case in the US, despite the Bushs etc.
You obviously don’t know the definition of nepotism.
It means favoring relatives for positions of power.
In your three American examples, there is not one case of nepotism.
In the US, nepotism is against the law, and it has been frownedupon since President Kennedy hired his brother Bob to be attorney general back in the 60’s.
In some cases, congressmen put wives or children on staff. Guess what? It becomes a scandal.
In Thailand, giving relatives undeserved high positions is a way of life.
George Bush never put a relative into a position of power.
As for Enron and Wal-Mart, those are private businesses.
Private businesses can do what they want.
If we went by your definition of “nepotism” in the business world and it was a crime in Thailand, most of the country would be in breach of the law.
And yes, Southeast Asian countries do have a higher level of nepotism than many other parts of the world.
Off the top of my head, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Indonesia, Cambodia, and Thailand are the most egregious practitioners of nepotism.
Where, outside Southeast Asia, is nepotism just as bad?
If the conference takes place and people attend, the military junta can point at it and say “See, we don’t censor anything. Academics are free to say what they like.” – then show the list of attendants – “and those people here think this is a good way to do it. Otherwise they wouldn’t be there”.
If you feel such a conference is uncensored, I guess you can go. If it is censored and you do not mind supporting that idea publicly, I guess you can go. If it is censored and you do not want to put your approving signature below that, then I guess you probably shouldn’t go.
When I was relocated to Singapore in the mid-90s, we were shocked to be told by the then headmistress our two sons’ international school to avoid discussing Singapore domestic politics in front of our boys, lest they repeat our opinions in public. Wow – we had not expected to land in a remake of Nazi Germany or of the Stalinist USSR. After only one week at school, I picked up my elder son – then 10 years old – one evening and we drove past Tanglin Road Police Station. Without prompting, he said to me: “Dad, that’s where they make you talk.”
I find it hard to digest that the supposedly learned people at ANU are collectively mentally less astute than my son was at the age of 10.
[…] To my mind, sanctions in the case of Burma are meant to send a message, to hurt but not to totally bring down a regime. When a tourism ban to Burma was first discussed in the early 1990s by one of the very first Burmese activist groups, … – more – […]
Look at the Bush family, or the Waltons, or Enron. Nepotism is not the domain of the third world elite, nor a unique cultural trait of mainland southeast asia, nor reserved for so-called ‘weak’ states. It is an identifiable structure of supposedly vested interests (even though families are as divided within as they are between). I wonder whose interests are at work in the publication of the story. I don’t believe it is ‘the Cambodian people’ whatever the Daily professes.
dear all,
just chipping in my two cents’ woth.
firstly , i am a singaporean and even i feel that it is such a blatant display of hypocritical accolade on the part of anu, with regards to the decision to confer upon lky a honorary doctorate.
his government’s intent and methods doesnt warrant a doctorate, it justifies a coup d’etat , to say the least.
its ironic that i am posting this while being buffered by distance(in australia),
but lke any singaporeans living overseas- we actually become more politically aware as a result of this longing for home.
consequently, i have decided that i will return to singapore to do my part in eradicating this totalitarian despot.
You could draw the same chart for the Cabinet of Thailand, except it would be much much much larger.
The Mahidols, Sanitwongs, Issararangkuls, Chulanonts, Kalayanamitrs, Devakulas, Amranands, na Songkhlas, Pibulsonggrams, and Yodmanees are all related, going back at least a hundred years.
It seems to me as an amateur observer that it is not the respect of Thailand in the international community that is at stake over whether this meeting goes ahead with international attendees. Rather it is the self-respect of Thai Studies scholars, and the respect for their discipline in the wider academic community.
The game has changed significantly post-Handley. Legitimate academic meetings in Thailand can no longer be expected to skirt monarchy issues as if they didn’t exist. But that is exactly what the Thai authorities will expect. The notion that academic freedom in Thailand might be conceded to be more important than a deity is inconceivable.
By meeting in Thailand – under the terms likely to be imposed – the legitimacy of Thai Studies would be called into question.
A better course would be to boycott the meeting in Thailand, and schedule a parallel meeting at the same time OUTSIDE Thailand, where matters can be discussed openly. It would be good if funding could be found to invite legitimate scholars from within Thailand to this meeting, although it might be too ‘hot’ for them to do so.
If I say I totally agree with Republican, that I fell like clapping and shouting to support his view, would I be accused of Less Majeste?
(Not by any of you, but by the thai authorities)
Well, I’m not quite sure.
And frankly, I’m too scared to take the risk.
I should also note here the irony that this discussion could not be conducted in Thai, or at places (websites or any other medium)
more open to Thai readership (including the authorities). Even at Thammasat, where it’s often boasted that “there’s Freedom every inch”.
Should this situation alone not enough to make any talk of the Conference as “academic” (“academic” gathering, “academic” exchange, etc.) rather strange?
I think beauty contests ought to be bombed, not banned. But getting rid of massage parlours; bars; Patpong; etc. won’t have any impact on women’s liberation.
Btw, you might not like prostitution but there is ‘life’ in it.
Harvard is joining the hypocrisy – it’s giving an honorary degree to Bill Gates! This is a man who a US court ruled to have actively blocking competition, in violation of the Sherman Act. This man, who founded one of the world’s largest and most predatory of companies, had the gall to ask the judge the meaning of the words “ask” and “we.” Even the European Union has found that he abused his market power.
Lee Kuan Yew might have been mean and oppressive, but he never broke the law (as far as I recall). But if even an institution like Harvard is giving an honorary degree to a rascal like Gates, then I guess anything is possible.
Republican said: “If anyone has the faintest understanding of the situation in Thailand now you would know that the regime is totally in control: of the military, the government, the mass media, and most ominously the Constitutional Drafting Panel.”
The running commentary in Thai newspapers seems, if anything, to suggest that the regime lacks control. You keep talking of dictatorships but the reality is that your beloved Thaksin was more like a dictator than either Surayud, Sonthi or Prem.
Obviously, anyone who thinks they are being ‘used’ are free to boycott the conference if they wish.
Miss beauty contest should be banned. So does the massage parlor, bars in Patpong, Nana, Cowboy. And we should bomb pattaya and start over..am sad that so many thai women have to use beauty to advance themsleves
Thai women can do better than just being pretty and married rich men…
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Thai studies boycott? An update
Just another conference for ‘inter’national academics to add a line to their CV, and just another coup for Thais to endure, why bother to be so complex? (most of you don’t even live in Thailand permanently anyway). I wish someone has guts to speak out loud- ‘what will others think of me if I go?’ Attending or not is to do with your reputation and politics. Drop those ‘academic freedom’, ‘ethics’, or ‘exchange of knowledge’, will you? I got sick reading them.
Staging a protest? Hundreds of Thais gathered at Sanam Luang a few days back but they didn’t even get a headline (how many of you knew this?).
‘Feeling guilty is not a sign of high morality’- applying to whom it may concern.
ANU honours Lee Kuan Yew. Why?
Let me chirp in on this…
Lee might have installed an oppressive regime, but it isn’t nearly as bad as the regimes in Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia. But Lee also played a large role in Singapore’s extremely fast economic and human development.
It leaves me asking: what would I rather have, a crappy government, a vibrant economy, and a healthy well educated population, or a crappy government, poverty, and the education standards of Indonesia? I wish there was a third choice, but there aren’t really any in Southeast Asia. Heck, even Japan and Korea produced tons of corruption and several despots during the past 50 years.
So give the guy credit – he might not be the greatest statesman in Asia, but he’s certainly one of the better ones.
Blood and marriage in Cambodia
That is brilliant.
The hard working people who dug up that info should be applauded. It is ***so systematic*** that words would merely clutter the description.
Nepotism is a very slippery thing and sometimes disappears into its hole as quickly as it emerges, without a trace.
Take, for instance, the article from the Bangkok Post below (with a little threat of defamation suit kicker, doing honour to Lee Kuan Yew’s innovation).
The BTS was in bankruptcy proceedings and actually looking further into the situation would have cost the main parties money, so the issue disappeared. But the seasoned reporter Nuntawun Polkuamdee did a good job of uncovering the facts.
http://www.readbangkokpost.com/economics/corporate_governance/bts_corporate_governance_confl.php
Blood and marriage in Cambodia
I’m not sure this is odd or even avoidable. There is a very small, limited elite — by position, title or money — in Cambodia, and they have now had stability for a decade or so, long enough to create a “hi-so” and to raise a next generation thinking about advancing the family interest over generations inside the country, rather than just trying to get out (though I doubt they have given up escape routes).
To this end they have limited choices of who to do business with, whom to call on to get their kids a ministry job, and whom to marry their children to. Realistically speaking, they are not going to marry far beneath themselves.
Perhaps there is some academic theory on elites and intermarriage in societies which maps out just when the society is advanced enough that the utility of such connections means less than absolute skills — which is the case in the US, despite the Bushs etc.
Blood and marriage in Cambodia
saisen-
You obviously don’t know the definition of nepotism.
It means favoring relatives for positions of power.
In your three American examples, there is not one case of nepotism.
In the US, nepotism is against the law, and it has been frownedupon since President Kennedy hired his brother Bob to be attorney general back in the 60’s.
In some cases, congressmen put wives or children on staff. Guess what? It becomes a scandal.
In Thailand, giving relatives undeserved high positions is a way of life.
George Bush never put a relative into a position of power.
As for Enron and Wal-Mart, those are private businesses.
Private businesses can do what they want.
If we went by your definition of “nepotism” in the business world and it was a crime in Thailand, most of the country would be in breach of the law.
And yes, Southeast Asian countries do have a higher level of nepotism than many other parts of the world.
Off the top of my head, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Indonesia, Cambodia, and Thailand are the most egregious practitioners of nepotism.
Where, outside Southeast Asia, is nepotism just as bad?
Thai studies boycott? An update
If the conference takes place and people attend, the military junta can point at it and say “See, we don’t censor anything. Academics are free to say what they like.” – then show the list of attendants – “and those people here think this is a good way to do it. Otherwise they wouldn’t be there”.
If you feel such a conference is uncensored, I guess you can go. If it is censored and you do not mind supporting that idea publicly, I guess you can go. If it is censored and you do not want to put your approving signature below that, then I guess you probably shouldn’t go.
“Frankly very disturbing”
When I was relocated to Singapore in the mid-90s, we were shocked to be told by the then headmistress our two sons’ international school to avoid discussing Singapore domestic politics in front of our boys, lest they repeat our opinions in public. Wow – we had not expected to land in a remake of Nazi Germany or of the Stalinist USSR. After only one week at school, I picked up my elder son – then 10 years old – one evening and we drove past Tanglin Road Police Station. Without prompting, he said to me: “Dad, that’s where they make you talk.”
I find it hard to digest that the supposedly learned people at ANU are collectively mentally less astute than my son was at the age of 10.
Tutu on South Africa’s Burma vote
[…] To my mind, sanctions in the case of Burma are meant to send a message, to hurt but not to totally bring down a regime. When a tourism ban to Burma was first discussed in the early 1990s by one of the very first Burmese activist groups, … – more – […]
Populism!
I wouldn’t mind a bit of privy counseling with her
Blood and marriage in Cambodia
Look at the Bush family, or the Waltons, or Enron. Nepotism is not the domain of the third world elite, nor a unique cultural trait of mainland southeast asia, nor reserved for so-called ‘weak’ states. It is an identifiable structure of supposedly vested interests (even though families are as divided within as they are between). I wonder whose interests are at work in the publication of the story. I don’t believe it is ‘the Cambodian people’ whatever the Daily professes.
ANU honours Lee Kuan Yew. Why?
dear all,
just chipping in my two cents’ woth.
firstly , i am a singaporean and even i feel that it is such a blatant display of hypocritical accolade on the part of anu, with regards to the decision to confer upon lky a honorary doctorate.
his government’s intent and methods doesnt warrant a doctorate, it justifies a coup d’etat , to say the least.
its ironic that i am posting this while being buffered by distance(in australia),
but lke any singaporeans living overseas- we actually become more politically aware as a result of this longing for home.
consequently, i have decided that i will return to singapore to do my part in eradicating this totalitarian despot.
Blood and marriage in Cambodia
You could draw the same chart for the Cabinet of Thailand, except it would be much much much larger.
The Mahidols, Sanitwongs, Issararangkuls, Chulanonts, Kalayanamitrs, Devakulas, Amranands, na Songkhlas, Pibulsonggrams, and Yodmanees are all related, going back at least a hundred years.
Populism!
Crikey! They all look like luuk khreungs!
Thai studies boycott? An update
It seems to me as an amateur observer that it is not the respect of Thailand in the international community that is at stake over whether this meeting goes ahead with international attendees. Rather it is the self-respect of Thai Studies scholars, and the respect for their discipline in the wider academic community.
The game has changed significantly post-Handley. Legitimate academic meetings in Thailand can no longer be expected to skirt monarchy issues as if they didn’t exist. But that is exactly what the Thai authorities will expect. The notion that academic freedom in Thailand might be conceded to be more important than a deity is inconceivable.
By meeting in Thailand – under the terms likely to be imposed – the legitimacy of Thai Studies would be called into question.
A better course would be to boycott the meeting in Thailand, and schedule a parallel meeting at the same time OUTSIDE Thailand, where matters can be discussed openly. It would be good if funding could be found to invite legitimate scholars from within Thailand to this meeting, although it might be too ‘hot’ for them to do so.
Thai studies boycott? An update
If I say I totally agree with Republican, that I fell like clapping and shouting to support his view, would I be accused of Less Majeste?
(Not by any of you, but by the thai authorities)
Well, I’m not quite sure.
And frankly, I’m too scared to take the risk.
I should also note here the irony that this discussion could not be conducted in Thai, or at places (websites or any other medium)
more open to Thai readership (including the authorities). Even at Thammasat, where it’s often boasted that “there’s Freedom every inch”.
Should this situation alone not enough to make any talk of the Conference as “academic” (“academic” gathering, “academic” exchange, etc.) rather strange?
Populism!
thai but not so proud:
I think beauty contests ought to be bombed, not banned. But getting rid of massage parlours; bars; Patpong; etc. won’t have any impact on women’s liberation.
Btw, you might not like prostitution but there is ‘life’ in it.
The electoral importance of “support”
Shawn Crispin’s recent article in Asia Times makes some interesting observations:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IC23Ae01.html
Is Thaksin really a spent force, politically?
Lee Kuan who?
Harvard is joining the hypocrisy – it’s giving an honorary degree to Bill Gates! This is a man who a US court ruled to have actively blocking competition, in violation of the Sherman Act. This man, who founded one of the world’s largest and most predatory of companies, had the gall to ask the judge the meaning of the words “ask” and “we.” Even the European Union has found that he abused his market power.
Lee Kuan Yew might have been mean and oppressive, but he never broke the law (as far as I recall). But if even an institution like Harvard is giving an honorary degree to a rascal like Gates, then I guess anything is possible.
Thai studies boycott? An update
Republican said: “If anyone has the faintest understanding of the situation in Thailand now you would know that the regime is totally in control: of the military, the government, the mass media, and most ominously the Constitutional Drafting Panel.”
The running commentary in Thai newspapers seems, if anything, to suggest that the regime lacks control. You keep talking of dictatorships but the reality is that your beloved Thaksin was more like a dictator than either Surayud, Sonthi or Prem.
Obviously, anyone who thinks they are being ‘used’ are free to boycott the conference if they wish.
Populism!
Miss beauty contest should be banned. So does the massage parlor, bars in Patpong, Nana, Cowboy. And we should bomb pattaya and start over..am sad that so many thai women have to use beauty to advance themsleves
Thai women can do better than just being pretty and married rich men…