#67: Section 8 of the 1997 Constitution says, “The King shall be enthroned in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated. No person shall expose the King to any sort of accusation or action.”
#64: You have really come across people who venerate the crown prince?
Stupid question Republican . . . that means you have not fully researched how monarchies really end.
When the population gets fed up with their King (Paine’s “obnoxious” understatement) is when monarchies get booted out. The action by the citizenry usually is extemporanous and angry . . . much like what happened to Thaksin but with more vehemence because monarchies reigned much much longer.
But I don’t see that coming to the current reigning Thai King
You are a presumptous prolix Republican. You presume you are the only knowledgeable on your favorite subject.
Jon F.> “Thailand bashing”? Puh-leez. *rolls eyes*
The definition of [insert-country-here]-bashing would be a series of ad hominem and tu quoque arguements which would be based on percieved national stereotypes (cf. the Japan-bashing of the early 1980’s). Whereas, the Japan/American bashing was based on racism and xenophobia; this so-called Thailand bashing is based on reasoned, legalistic arguments against certain policies of Thailand’s government. You can feel free to agree or disagree, but I feel it to be a tad hysterical to call this lobbying “Thailand bashing”. (BTW, just what makes an NGO “real” or not?)
In short, the difference between bashing and reasoned criticism is this:
Bashing: “Well, if Thailand actually did something about your prostitution problem, then you wouldn’t have an HIV/AIDS epidemic in the first place!”
Criticism: “Thailand’s complusory licensing violates WTO agreements that Thailand is a party to.”
Get it?
p.s. OK, step right up and place your bets! It’s currently 3:1 that “Dr.” Sittichai’s i-Thugs will block access to the ThaiMyths.com website within the month. It’s 104:1 that the rationale for this will be “insulting the Monarchy,” 4:1 for “hurting national unity,” 2:1 for “endangering national security,” and 17:1 for “the website hurts Gen. Prem’s feelings.”
A question for legal and constitutional scholars: legally, can the king be (i) charged and/or (ii) convicted of corruption? What about other members of the royal family? (This is a genuine question; I have no legal background). Thanks.
“Repub-nant” ha ha, that’s brilliant! I always thought you would make a good comic writer Vichai N. No, I wasn’t accusing you of plagiarism; I know that all your ideas come from the 8pm propaganda news anyway. “Original thinking” and Vichai N. have never appeared on the same page. I was just excited that you are becoming interested in republicanism – even though I know you will be forced to deny it in order to save yourself from a lese majeste charge. I understand that very well.
Yes, in fact I think that Thailand has a very good chance of turning republican – “prachathipatai” in Pridi’s sense – after R9 goes, the full extent of the corruption and abuse of the political system that occurs under the monarchy finally becomes more widely known, and the “herd” (as Paine puts it) is released to finally rule itself as a free people. Maybe then Thailand can wake up from its feudal slumber and catch up to the rest of Asia. At the moment it is the laughing stock of the region.
Nganadeelag-
That’s the different between government power and legal power. From my understanding, ASC is just a committee. It cannot afford to “not allows” it to happen.
If ASC deem PJ’s postponement unreasonable/harmful to the case. The most it can do is ask for court order to seize the asset or detain the withness. But that’s court decision, not ASC. Whatever ASC say, it has to send the case to a prosecutor. PJ’s will still have to prove her innocent in court as defendant.
Who is the audience?
What is the purpose of the conference?
Where is the website?
Who is paying for it?
Who is organising it?
Will they publish conference papers?
Why isn’t Big Pharma invited? They are effectively the proxy US state department vis-a-vis Thailand nowadays, much as the US military assumed this role in Ira, e.g.
And the proxies for Big Pharma, the PR firms, law firms, and the fake NGO “USA for Innovation” that have been engaging in Thailand bashing recently under the cover of working independently, e.g. http://www.thailies.com/
“I don’t think Thailand has a real striptease, even at Patpong. I don’t see girls in Patpong dancing, they just move their bodies a bit”
This is a little ridiculous, the haughty airs of a rich amateur.
IMHO I don’t know how many hours a day the women in Bangkok or Pattaya go go bars dance, but with 8 to 12 hours per day plus trying to sell drinks to bar customers, the constraints of their profession would probably only allow artistry for short periods in a work day, when they were trying to close a deal, for instance.
At least NGOs like Empower provide these women with a professional collective identity.
I’m sure articles about Empower have been published in the Bangkok Post. I’ll find some in the archives and publish them on our site. This is an important issue.
So if the court convicts Google/YouTube in absentia for lese majeste, does that mean that Eric Schmidt (Google CEO) will be arrested and thrown in jail for 15 years if he visits Thailand?
I agree, Vichai – our monarch is certainly better than those corrupt and cruel elected politicians. HMK takes his legacy with gravity and responsibility. I, for one, can’t wait to see how well his son handles it.
Thouhts from a person who has a slightly prudish attitude to se. Titillating perhaps!? But it is an important issue. And we would do well to reflect on the fact that the MAJORITY of ordinary Thai women (not just the jaded middle-class or poor farmer’s daughters) obviously feel the need to express themselves through dress and behavior that doesn’t really exactly conform to the code that some local moralisers would wish. Indeed, the headscarf is often accompanied by figure-hugging jeans.
I rather fancy many of these moralisers have a great deal in common with the dreadful General Sarit, who obviously wished women to constantly conform to his current alpha male whim. Such hypocrites often have a heavy agenda on ‘family values’ and religion, while at the same time expecting us to completely ignore their mia noi habits. Certainly, a temple is absolutely NOT the place for sexual expression, but the gym, the aerobics court and the home are. (Compare with General Sarit, who apparently felt it was OK to have this kind of entertainment in some temples.)
Millions of Thai women are breaking the bounds on a daily basis. (One wonders when was the golden era when it was ever any different!? Traditional dress has always had its erotic elements.) It’s time for these moralisers to shut up, and show some respect for the desires of a clear majority. Indeed, it is often the wish of some members of the elite here, to continue controlling every game in town, that has contributed to poor farmer’s daughters having no other real option in life than to work in the sex industry. We should remember, also, that the police & the elite have played a very active role in the creation of the modern Thai sex industry.
Vichai, I think your question about drugs has a lot to to with borderless regionalisation. Checkout the APEC summit in September! Steven Gerrard should too!
Maybe instead of a pay rise, one of these generous Harvard graduates can give Paul Wolfowitz a massage in exchange for curing all the sick!
In my unscientific sampling of opinions from middle class educated Thais in Bangkok, the tossing out of Thaksin was indeed welcome, and no mention was made of the impact on democracy. The impact of the relatively strong baht on exports and overseas travel or study was of greater concern. There was also a strong cynical streak regarding all local governments, whether civil or military, given the long history of rotating corrupt factions through the halls of power.
The King is widely venerated, as is the Crown Princess, but certain other select members of the royal family are persistently on the receiving end of scorn and jokes. Given the antipathy towards those members, there certainly is a possibility for Thailand to swing towards republicanism in the future. Setting aside the issue of the lese majeste law, do Thais revere the King or the institution more? I think this is an important question.
The rest of the Bangkok Post article: “The striptease I am learning is not like what saucy nightclub entertainers are doing,” said Reiko Sakamoto, 36, a manager at the Senju Metal Trading Company. “They do something a bit similar with the expressing of sexiness but it’s not the same.”
In Busakorn’s opinion, women are sexy when they feel relaxed. “Sexiness is always from inside. Nobody can pretend to be sexy. Especially, in such a plastic world today, it is hard to get back to the nature,” she opined.
“This is why this dancing is different from others. Striptease isn’t only about learning a pattern of body movement but emotional expression which is sexually explicit,” she said.
“This is the principle of the striptease. To get people to feel free to express themselves,” she said.
Busakorn insisted, “Striptease is an art, not just a dirty dance to arouse man’s sexual desire. Striptease makes a dancer feel more comfortable to their bodies and also has psychological benefit. Many women are not self-confident, feeling uncomfortable to express their feeling, but inside they really want to do so. Striptease makes them think that to release their emotion is not a bad thing.”
Busakorn’s striptease philosophy, unfortunately, may be lost on the thousands of go-go girls engaged in erotic dancing in Bangkok for a living, rather than as a hobby.
Busakorn said she understood that these women were dancing for money, and probably couldn’t afford her classes at 300 baht (8.50 dollars) an hour, but she refuses to call what they do art.
“I don’t think Thailand has a real striptease, even at Patpong. I don’t see girls in Patpong dancing, they just move their bodies a bit,” she said.
I like this quote: “Striptease is an art, not just a dirty dance to arouse man’s sexual desire”
Fall: It seems it’s not only Youtube that fail so jump at government orders.. from today’s Bangkok Post:
Thaksin’s wife postpones ASC testimony
(BangkokPost.com) – Potjaman Shinawatra, wife of deposed premier Thaksin, asked to postponed her testimony to the Assets Scrutiny Committee on Shin Corp share transactions scheduled for Wednesday, saying she had other business to look after.
Family lawyer Noppadol Pattama said on Tuesday that Khunying Potjaman was willing to cooperate with the ASC, but she was not available on Wednesday so she would like to reschedule the meeting.
He did not explain the exact nature of Khunying Potjaman’s claimed “other business,” but said she was not trying to duck out of appearing.
“The postponement isn’t aimed at buying time because Khunying Potjaman will testify to the ASC as a witness,” he said.
As to when she would meet with the ASC, Mr Noppadol said that depended on the decision of the probe panel.
It’s not the first time witnesses have done that – I cannot understand why the ASC allows it to happen.
I googled, it was the first of many websites comparing republicanism vsl constitutional monarchy, so I quoted the website as the source because the author was not mentioned. Now you cannot accuse me of plagiarism now, do you Mr. Repub-nant?
But my contention is that HMK is hardly obnoxious nor would I categorize HMK’s reign as falling under tyranny. But you are entitled to feel oppressed Republican . . . most TRT members apparently start feeling paranoid these days.
Inheritance is a serious matter Republican and most of the heirs usually have no choice on the matter. It is Thailand’s gift that HMK Bhumibhol took his legacy as monarch with the utmost of gravity and responsibility.
Most elected leaders on the other hand, after usually having bought or intimidated their way into power, embrace the perks of their office and dismiss their responsibilities to the electorate. I said most, but not all. Thaksin and Marcos fall in that category of ‘most’ Republican.
By the way Republican, still feel there is a remote chance that Thailand can turn Republican during your lifetime?
Communist Vietnamese government officials, scholars or journalists visiting Australia should be asked tough questions about the incarceration of journalists like Nguyen Vu Binh, Tran Khai Thanh Thuy who spoke up to defend the poor people of Vietnam and the integrity of the Vietnamese land. Information about these people can be found at PEN International, Amnesty International, Human Rights Wacth
Australians should ask questions about the current continuing abuses of human rights in Vietnam and extensive corruption and jailing of human rights advocates in Vietnam by the so-called socialist government which pretended to bring independence and happiness to the Vietnamese people.
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Has the coup been good for democracy?
#67: Section 8 of the 1997 Constitution says, “The King shall be enthroned in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated. No person shall expose the King to any sort of accusation or action.”
#64: You have really come across people who venerate the crown prince?
Holiday inn Arlington
“bash” means “criticize severely in a public way”
“bash Thailand” means “criticize Thailand severely in a public way”
The name Thailies.com is Thailand bashing.
Some of their “myths” are just plain stupid, such as:
“Thailand is a poor country and cannot afford Western medicines.” Yes, it is.
Look up Gini coefficient and inequality.
Most people in the rural neighborhood I am familiar with in Chiang Rai earn no more than 2 to 4,000 baht.
> What makes an NGO “real” or not?
That it doesn’t just pop up conveniently and mysteriously when a major multinational corporation needs it.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
Stupid question Republican . . . that means you have not fully researched how monarchies really end.
When the population gets fed up with their King (Paine’s “obnoxious” understatement) is when monarchies get booted out. The action by the citizenry usually is extemporanous and angry . . . much like what happened to Thaksin but with more vehemence because monarchies reigned much much longer.
But I don’t see that coming to the current reigning Thai King
You are a presumptous prolix Republican. You presume you are the only knowledgeable on your favorite subject.
Holiday inn Arlington
Jon F.> “Thailand bashing”? Puh-leez. *rolls eyes*
The definition of [insert-country-here]-bashing would be a series of ad hominem and tu quoque arguements which would be based on percieved national stereotypes (cf. the Japan-bashing of the early 1980’s). Whereas, the Japan/American bashing was based on racism and xenophobia; this so-called Thailand bashing is based on reasoned, legalistic arguments against certain policies of Thailand’s government. You can feel free to agree or disagree, but I feel it to be a tad hysterical to call this lobbying “Thailand bashing”. (BTW, just what makes an NGO “real” or not?)
In short, the difference between bashing and reasoned criticism is this:
Bashing: “Well, if Thailand actually did something about your prostitution problem, then you wouldn’t have an HIV/AIDS epidemic in the first place!”
Criticism: “Thailand’s complusory licensing violates WTO agreements that Thailand is a party to.”
Get it?
p.s. OK, step right up and place your bets! It’s currently 3:1 that “Dr.” Sittichai’s i-Thugs will block access to the ThaiMyths.com website within the month. It’s 104:1 that the rationale for this will be “insulting the Monarchy,” 4:1 for “hurting national unity,” 2:1 for “endangering national security,” and 17:1 for “the website hurts Gen. Prem’s feelings.”
Has the coup been good for democracy?
A question for legal and constitutional scholars: legally, can the king be (i) charged and/or (ii) convicted of corruption? What about other members of the royal family? (This is a genuine question; I have no legal background). Thanks.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
“Repub-nant” ha ha, that’s brilliant! I always thought you would make a good comic writer Vichai N. No, I wasn’t accusing you of plagiarism; I know that all your ideas come from the 8pm propaganda news anyway. “Original thinking” and Vichai N. have never appeared on the same page. I was just excited that you are becoming interested in republicanism – even though I know you will be forced to deny it in order to save yourself from a lese majeste charge. I understand that very well.
Yes, in fact I think that Thailand has a very good chance of turning republican – “prachathipatai” in Pridi’s sense – after R9 goes, the full extent of the corruption and abuse of the political system that occurs under the monarchy finally becomes more widely known, and the “herd” (as Paine puts it) is released to finally rule itself as a free people. Maybe then Thailand can wake up from its feudal slumber and catch up to the rest of Asia. At the moment it is the laughing stock of the region.
YouTube vs Thai dictatorship: The saga continues
Nganadeelag-
That’s the different between government power and legal power. From my understanding, ASC is just a committee. It cannot afford to “not allows” it to happen.
If ASC deem PJ’s postponement unreasonable/harmful to the case. The most it can do is ask for court order to seize the asset or detain the withness. But that’s court decision, not ASC. Whatever ASC say, it has to send the case to a prosecutor. PJ’s will still have to prove her innocent in court as defendant.
Patiwat-
In my opinion (political reasons aside), I assume the junta want to play the card like Turkey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube#Banning_in_Turkey
But with all the grace of militaristic regime.
Holiday inn Arlington
Obvious questions:
Who is the audience?
What is the purpose of the conference?
Where is the website?
Who is paying for it?
Who is organising it?
Will they publish conference papers?
Why isn’t Big Pharma invited? They are effectively the proxy US state department vis-a-vis Thailand nowadays, much as the US military assumed this role in Ira, e.g.
And the proxies for Big Pharma, the PR firms, law firms, and the fake NGO “USA for Innovation” that have been engaging in Thailand bashing recently under the cover of working independently, e.g. http://www.thailies.com/
The actions of the USTR and these unofficial organisations are highly correlated, yet not officially connected:
http://www.readbangkokpost.com/business/healthcare_industry/intellectual_property_or_savin_3.php
Thanks for this posting. Without any clues to its existence on the internet, it would have slipped right past most peoples’ radar.
Middle class coyote
“I don’t think Thailand has a real striptease, even at Patpong. I don’t see girls in Patpong dancing, they just move their bodies a bit”
This is a little ridiculous, the haughty airs of a rich amateur.
IMHO I don’t know how many hours a day the women in Bangkok or Pattaya go go bars dance, but with 8 to 12 hours per day plus trying to sell drinks to bar customers, the constraints of their profession would probably only allow artistry for short periods in a work day, when they were trying to close a deal, for instance.
At least NGOs like Empower provide these women with a professional collective identity.
I’m sure articles about Empower have been published in the Bangkok Post. I’ll find some in the archives and publish them on our site. This is an important issue.
YouTube vs Thai dictatorship: The saga continues
So if the court convicts Google/YouTube in absentia for lese majeste, does that mean that Eric Schmidt (Google CEO) will be arrested and thrown in jail for 15 years if he visits Thailand?
Has the coup been good for democracy?
I agree, Vichai – our monarch is certainly better than those corrupt and cruel elected politicians. HMK takes his legacy with gravity and responsibility. I, for one, can’t wait to see how well his son handles it.
Middle class coyote
Thouhts from a person who has a slightly prudish attitude to se. Titillating perhaps!? But it is an important issue. And we would do well to reflect on the fact that the MAJORITY of ordinary Thai women (not just the jaded middle-class or poor farmer’s daughters) obviously feel the need to express themselves through dress and behavior that doesn’t really exactly conform to the code that some local moralisers would wish. Indeed, the headscarf is often accompanied by figure-hugging jeans.
I rather fancy many of these moralisers have a great deal in common with the dreadful General Sarit, who obviously wished women to constantly conform to his current alpha male whim. Such hypocrites often have a heavy agenda on ‘family values’ and religion, while at the same time expecting us to completely ignore their mia noi habits. Certainly, a temple is absolutely NOT the place for sexual expression, but the gym, the aerobics court and the home are. (Compare with General Sarit, who apparently felt it was OK to have this kind of entertainment in some temples.)
Millions of Thai women are breaking the bounds on a daily basis. (One wonders when was the golden era when it was ever any different!? Traditional dress has always had its erotic elements.) It’s time for these moralisers to shut up, and show some respect for the desires of a clear majority. Indeed, it is often the wish of some members of the elite here, to continue controlling every game in town, that has contributed to poor farmer’s daughters having no other real option in life than to work in the sex industry. We should remember, also, that the police & the elite have played a very active role in the creation of the modern Thai sex industry.
Middle class coyote
Vichai, I think your question about drugs has a lot to to with borderless regionalisation. Checkout the APEC summit in September! Steven Gerrard should too!
Maybe instead of a pay rise, one of these generous Harvard graduates can give Paul Wolfowitz a massage in exchange for curing all the sick!
Middle class coyote
I suppose there’ll be no trouble as long as they’re not called upon to dance at the local temple fair…
I must say, I shall never be able to look at Amarin Plaza in the same way.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
In my unscientific sampling of opinions from middle class educated Thais in Bangkok, the tossing out of Thaksin was indeed welcome, and no mention was made of the impact on democracy. The impact of the relatively strong baht on exports and overseas travel or study was of greater concern. There was also a strong cynical streak regarding all local governments, whether civil or military, given the long history of rotating corrupt factions through the halls of power.
The King is widely venerated, as is the Crown Princess, but certain other select members of the royal family are persistently on the receiving end of scorn and jokes. Given the antipathy towards those members, there certainly is a possibility for Thailand to swing towards republicanism in the future. Setting aside the issue of the lese majeste law, do Thais revere the King or the institution more? I think this is an important question.
Middle class coyote
The rest of the Bangkok Post article:
“The striptease I am learning is not like what saucy nightclub entertainers are doing,” said Reiko Sakamoto, 36, a manager at the Senju Metal Trading Company. “They do something a bit similar with the expressing of sexiness but it’s not the same.”
In Busakorn’s opinion, women are sexy when they feel relaxed. “Sexiness is always from inside. Nobody can pretend to be sexy. Especially, in such a plastic world today, it is hard to get back to the nature,” she opined.
“This is why this dancing is different from others. Striptease isn’t only about learning a pattern of body movement but emotional expression which is sexually explicit,” she said.
“This is the principle of the striptease. To get people to feel free to express themselves,” she said.
Busakorn insisted, “Striptease is an art, not just a dirty dance to arouse man’s sexual desire. Striptease makes a dancer feel more comfortable to their bodies and also has psychological benefit. Many women are not self-confident, feeling uncomfortable to express their feeling, but inside they really want to do so. Striptease makes them think that to release their emotion is not a bad thing.”
Busakorn’s striptease philosophy, unfortunately, may be lost on the thousands of go-go girls engaged in erotic dancing in Bangkok for a living, rather than as a hobby.
Busakorn said she understood that these women were dancing for money, and probably couldn’t afford her classes at 300 baht (8.50 dollars) an hour, but she refuses to call what they do art.
“I don’t think Thailand has a real striptease, even at Patpong. I don’t see girls in Patpong dancing, they just move their bodies a bit,” she said.
I like this quote: “Striptease is an art, not just a dirty dance to arouse man’s sexual desire”
YouTube vs Thai dictatorship: The saga continues
Fall: It seems it’s not only Youtube that fail so jump at government orders.. from today’s Bangkok Post:
Thaksin’s wife postpones ASC testimony
(BangkokPost.com) – Potjaman Shinawatra, wife of deposed premier Thaksin, asked to postponed her testimony to the Assets Scrutiny Committee on Shin Corp share transactions scheduled for Wednesday, saying she had other business to look after.
Family lawyer Noppadol Pattama said on Tuesday that Khunying Potjaman was willing to cooperate with the ASC, but she was not available on Wednesday so she would like to reschedule the meeting.
He did not explain the exact nature of Khunying Potjaman’s claimed “other business,” but said she was not trying to duck out of appearing.
“The postponement isn’t aimed at buying time because Khunying Potjaman will testify to the ASC as a witness,” he said.
As to when she would meet with the ASC, Mr Noppadol said that depended on the decision of the probe panel.
It’s not the first time witnesses have done that – I cannot understand why the ASC allows it to happen.
Has the coup been good for democracy?
I googled, it was the first of many websites comparing republicanism vsl constitutional monarchy, so I quoted the website as the source because the author was not mentioned. Now you cannot accuse me of plagiarism now, do you Mr. Repub-nant?
But my contention is that HMK is hardly obnoxious nor would I categorize HMK’s reign as falling under tyranny. But you are entitled to feel oppressed Republican . . . most TRT members apparently start feeling paranoid these days.
Inheritance is a serious matter Republican and most of the heirs usually have no choice on the matter. It is Thailand’s gift that HMK Bhumibhol took his legacy as monarch with the utmost of gravity and responsibility.
Most elected leaders on the other hand, after usually having bought or intimidated their way into power, embrace the perks of their office and dismiss their responsibilities to the electorate. I said most, but not all. Thaksin and Marcos fall in that category of ‘most’ Republican.
By the way Republican, still feel there is a remote chance that Thailand can turn Republican during your lifetime?
Middle class coyote
“…border on the tittilating.” Border! No border intended here. Pure titillation. But, as Disgusted notes, there is a political dimension.
Today is World Press Freedom day
Communist Vietnamese government officials, scholars or journalists visiting Australia should be asked tough questions about the incarceration of journalists like Nguyen Vu Binh, Tran Khai Thanh Thuy who spoke up to defend the poor people of Vietnam and the integrity of the Vietnamese land. Information about these people can be found at PEN International, Amnesty International, Human Rights Wacth
Australians should ask questions about the current continuing abuses of human rights in Vietnam and extensive corruption and jailing of human rights advocates in Vietnam by the so-called socialist government which pretended to bring independence and happiness to the Vietnamese people.