I am not sure weather hrk means what he says or he just sarcasm but I would like to give the power back to the monarch. We will learn how efficient(or inefficient) absolute monarchy is in Modern world.
Sorry, Hla Oo, it’s definitely not helping your cause going on a rant and name calling. Perhaps I’m a white fella masquerading as a Burman. Do try and rise above the level of the New Light of Myanmar on such an open forum as NM. Amazing how the state media has not changed one bit with the changing times from the Ma Hsa La (Burma Socialist Programme Party) era 20 years ago. Old dog and new tricks come to mind. Or is it old wine but no new bottle.
Stephen, I’m not denying that the Burmese patient needs aspirin and an ice pack to bring the temperature down but where’s the antibiotic? Lancing won’t do it where radical surgery is indicated.
Amberwaves, I am pleased that you, Marty and I agree that not all supporters of the PAD are part of a homogeneous mass and, concomitantly, there are differences in the views held by PAD leaders and supporters. It is, after all, a short point which should not be obscured by, and does not warrant, your vituperation. Incidentally, I do not seek “cred” nor your “free advice”. I am, nevertheless, interested in your views. Do you not know any PAD “supporters” who are critical of the short-sightedness and naivete of PAD “leaders”?
Under the given circumstances, only an enlightened government is able to solve the problems the country is facing, especialy in a period of a global financial crisis. Since 1932 it has been shown that elected governments tend to be inefficient, and elections do not work, because they do not raise the best of the best into positions of political power. A government is needed that is not only interested in power, but as well in responsibility! Such a government has to be based on Dharma in order to be above petty political struggles for power and economic gain and mere individual or vested interests. In other words, a Chakravartin and/or Dharmaraja is needed. As an intermediate measure, a regent should take over until monarchic rule can fully be established.
i am happy that you and Joy seem to are coming to a concensus that probably is not too far from my point of view…
perhaps I have been a bit strong about the numbers… because we have just come out of a right-wing government in Australia that voted to help in the Iraq war against strong protests by me and a heap of other Australians on the streets… the two things I admire about the past PM is … his statement and actions that he accepted the numbers (both for the war and when he was beaten and even lost his seat after 10 years in power… and he responded to a massacre by a rogue individual by banning guns on the streets of Australia, and buying back heaps of hidden weapons under an amnesty.
also, just in case you are from germany… I seem to remeber the Greens objected to the vote that sent German troops to assist the Iraq war.
anyway, enough… at least we all believe in everyone getting to vote and choose their government!
A judicial coup indeed. As a thai, I think this is a deceitful scheme that doesn’t even have a good camouflage. People will see through this. The court has lost its credibility. I hope this incident will open more eyes. PPP might be gone but People Power will grow stronger.
>Rather than speculate about the motives of PAD participants and supporters why not ask them to state them? There is nothing particularly difficult about this: there is no secret as to who they are, where they are or what they are doing.
Well, instead of talking about what people on the forum are saying, why not tell us what these women said to you? That might be a useful contribution.
Basically all you are saying now is ‘Nyah nyah, you’re wrong, I know the truth, and now I’m not telling you because you all are being nasty to me.”
As for asking about the guns, the point is that the answer you will often get is that “The PAD have no guns,” which I believe offers a useful look into the mindset of PAD supporters.
Marty has it quite right, there is huge difference between the views of PAD leaders and most of the people following them. My sarcastic reference to these women (who are not friends of your, just people you “know personally,” oh my apologies for that woeful misrepresentation) not carrying guns was apparently a failed effort to convey the same point.
You said: “On the contrary, my object (plainly misunderstood by you) was to draw attention to the fact that not all supporters of the PAD are part of a homogeneous mass.”
Point taken. Probably the reason it was misunderstood is that no one had been pushing the point, but if you were left with that impression that it was a major issue here, it’s reasonable to try to discuss it. Just don’t be taken aback at the reaction — your argument was not exactly to the point.
Apologies too for jumping to the conclusion that these friends, oops, sorry, “well-educated, well-travelled and thinking Thai people…. many women, some of whom are academics and successful business-women…” are nice.
Free advice: writing about the issues instead of parsing sentences will probably win you more cred here.
I agree with ken. This thing is just getting started. Ten years ago this was unthinkable . People opposing the all mighty yellow?! As a thai and a pad supporter, in the past week i have been re-thinking where i stand. I live in ko samui and have friends from isaan ( udon thani) and asked one of them why do u guys love thaksin so much? he lies ,cheats and steals. Hi reply was ” So do all politicians. But Thaksin gave us money, its not his own but he made it available to us in our times of trouble. ” Thai people ,especially poor people do not forget a favour. (bun khun)You give them an inch and they will give you a mile.”
The numbers that Hla Oo cites are truly mind boggling. Where did he ever come up with 5000 Special Forces in Thailand?
I don’t think that there are 5000 Special Forces total. And in Thailand there are maybe 15 guys, in a training capacity to the Thai army.
But let’s put those fantastic numbers aside for a moment. Nowhere in his reply did Hla Oo address the original post by me.
If we are to take at face value that the Burmese junta fears an external threat, how does that equate to murdering tens of thousands of its own people, illegal drug manufacturing and smuggling, and sex slavery?
Hla Oo deftly dances away from the original argument. This is like stating that people who didn’t vote for Obama are racists and secretly in the klan.
People bring up legitimate claims against the junta, and Hla Oo replies that we’re only making these statements because we hate the Burmese. I wore a black t-shirt today, which proves that I hate all Burmese. It’s ridiculous.
Hla Oo, you’re trying to defend the indefensible. And you’re doing a very poor job of it.
Dear Joy, I completely agree with you about what you say about ‘elitist classes’. In the future the Thai people will have to think about how to get out of this stranglehood. At the moment I only see Thaksin as being more dangerous.
This is what I believe in – if people listen to each other we will find common ground even if we disagree about all kind of things. And based on this common ground we can build a future.
There must be participation by all in society, and all who contribute should get a fair share (but I am not for free lunches).
Karl, I do like your idea about democracy. I do not major in political science and I appreciate your insights very much. I agree with most of what u said above. However, i think the crisis within Thailand right now is the result of the the elistist/royalist class ‘s struggle to hold on to power at all costs. Taksin, despite his wealth, is merely a politician and no matter how authoritarian or corrupt he used to be or has been, he is no longer the major player in Thai politics right now. I maybe wrong but… I see the elistist class (whose wealth is immense but pretends to preach ‘sufficiency economy’) that has ruled Thailand for an age and imposed oppressive laws on Thai people’s freedom of expression (and inhibited)our (Thais’) critical thinking as more destructive to Thailand’s progress. I look forward to more of yr post, especially for yr arguments that differ or contradict mine , because I believe I can gain more from different than similar opinion.
Anthony, you said: “Rather than speculate about the motives of PAD participants and supporters why not ask them to state them? There is nothing particularly difficult about this: there is no secret as to who they are, where they are or what they are doing.” My point was that there is no need – you’ve missed the boat on this – as there is an “official” media on what PAD thinks and most especially its leadership, so why not use it? If that is personal denigration then you are probably rather too sensitive.
There are huge differenced between the agendas of some PAD leaders and followers.
Probably a very select few followers know who is supporting the PAD, the rest are just followers. We all suspect and we all surmise but we could all be wrong. If the PAD manages to subvert democracy and manages to wrestle in some even more sinister idea than “New Politics”. I feel there will be a lot of Pad’s supporters, who in good faith believe what they are going is right and just, will feel let down and duped.
Throughout history the sheep of the world have always blindly followed very suspect leaders. It must be a human trait to try and self destruct. Thailand is in the post Thaksin era after following him and now we have a new group that borders on a Cult that a few thousand well offs feel they should follow to the death. My hope is Sondi and Chanlong don’t make them drink the Kool-Aid, before they give up the airports.
US Observer: I think you are right. Dissolving the house now means only 30 days for MPs to be in a new party. The 60 days following dissolution of a party does seem to opens a chance for disqualifying people as Section 108 says, “The King has the prerogative to dissolve the House of Representatives for a new election of members of the House. The dissolution of the House of Representatives shall be made in the form of a Royal Decree in which the day for a new general election must be fixed for not less than forty-five days but not more than sixty days as from the day the House of Representatives has been dissolved and such election day must be the same throughout the Kingdom.” So there is room to move if the powers that be want to keep all government MPs out.
Sadly, (although somewhat predictably) this discussion has fallen right into the polarised debate which, as noted above, “has hindered the development of more innovative and just forms of engagement with contemporary Burma.”
Hla Oo, you’re right to criticise the imposition of foreign ‘solutions’ to the challenges faced by people in Burma. However, even if harmful sanctions were removed, the humanitarian and human rights challenges facing people in Burma (which you are correct to point out arose in the context of civil war and the struggles of World War 2 and even before) would not disappear over night. And whatever you or I may say about it, there will continue to be UN agencies, bilateral agencies, international NGOs and independent foreign volunteers (as there are in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos) attempting to ‘help’ address these concerns.
The problem is not so much the desire to ‘help’ but the imposition of external ‘solutions’ on the people of Burma which ignore the views and concerns of the people in the country. However, it is important to acknowledge that many people in Burma likewise view the SPDC’s ‘solutions’ to these challenges as inappropriate impositions (please read the testimonies in the KHRG report). The people of Burma (as distinct from the military) are presently engaging on a daily basis with the humanitarian and human rights challenges they face. External attempts to ‘help’ people in Burma which neglect these indigenous ‘self help’ efforts merely perpetuate the exclusion of local people from the political processes (like humanitarian relief programmes) which affect them.
Moe Aung, you’re correct to note the need for a political resolution to the State-society conflict in Burma. However, pinning all hopes on regime change misses important opportunities to address humanitarian and human rights concerns prior to national-level political reform. Politics is more than just the struggle over formal State authority and democracy is more than just multiparty elections. There are currently opportunities to democratise on-the-ground political processes which may be of more immediate concern to many people in Burma than a State-level democratic transition.
Many of these issues are addressed in depth in the Karen Human Rights Group Village Agencyreport. I strongly encourage anyone interested in contemporary Burma to read it.
[Also, on SPDC threat perceptions, I recommend Andrew Selth’s article “Burma and the Threat of Invasion: Regime Fantasy or Strategic Reality?” On the fallacy of the Chinese Signals Intelligence base on the Coco Islands, see Des Ball’s article “Chinese Whispers: The Great Coco Island Mystery.”]
I very strongly feel that democracy is not about numbers but about consensus and participation. There might be cultural differences. There are societies which admire competition and winner takes all, and there are societies which do put more emphasis on togetherness. I do not think that the latter are worse off, I rather think the opposite.
I am coming out of a consensus system. I would say for 70% of the policies you do not need any voting at all – sometimes quite long discussions allow to arrive at solutions which are accepted by all -, for the rest voting may be necessary. And then there are cases in which votes are being taken and some members absolutely and fundamentally disagree. In these cases, things are being thought through again and not simply pushed through. No group and society can survive peacefully in the long term when parts of it are being pushed out of the participation.
The alternative in Thailand is not ‘rule by the people’ versus ‘rule by some families’ but ‘rule by one person’ versus ‘rule by oligarchies’. I do not like the latter neither but it is far better then rule by a very ruthless, greedy and megalomaniac ‘one person’. Does anyone really believe in the spin that Thaksin rule is rule by the people? I am really stunned.
I hear the ABC’s (Australia) experienced correspondent Geoff (?) Thompson is increasingly cutting Bangkok correspondent Karen Percy’s pro-PAD lunch, and for the first time, on ‘The World Today’ mention made of the man at the top.
For once on the ABC, a critical assessment of the situation, including the possible outcome of the CC decision. I hope the they keep it up.
Oliver, That’s my ultimate wish too. As a Thai, we were taught only one version of history when we were young, but those who are exposed to more ‘progressive’ writing about Thailand and who care to learn more can eventually see things for what they are. I’m not saying that we have reached the ‘ultimate truth’ , because obviously, there is no such a thinng, but we have learned to question existing verities and eager to open ourselves to constructive criticism. I think older generations of Thais such as Jitra Pumisak, Kulap Saipradit and Seni Saowapong had posed significant challenge to oppressive status quo in Thailand in their works .. e.g in Sena Saowapong’s “Ghosts’ (Pi-sart, in Thai) .. Kulap also wrote very interesting essays about democracy during his stay in Australia (see “Kulap in OZ” by scot Barme).. well I’m not advocating Maoist ideology here, but just mention them because their thoughts are also crucial in contesting age-old hegemony from the elistist class.
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PPP gone…
I am not sure weather hrk means what he says or he just sarcasm but I would like to give the power back to the monarch. We will learn how efficient(or inefficient) absolute monarchy is in Modern world.
Help
Sorry, Hla Oo, it’s definitely not helping your cause going on a rant and name calling. Perhaps I’m a white fella masquerading as a Burman. Do try and rise above the level of the New Light of Myanmar on such an open forum as NM. Amazing how the state media has not changed one bit with the changing times from the Ma Hsa La (Burma Socialist Programme Party) era 20 years ago. Old dog and new tricks come to mind. Or is it old wine but no new bottle.
Stephen, I’m not denying that the Burmese patient needs aspirin and an ice pack to bring the temperature down but where’s the antibiotic? Lancing won’t do it where radical surgery is indicated.
Restraint is discredited
Amberwaves, I am pleased that you, Marty and I agree that not all supporters of the PAD are part of a homogeneous mass and, concomitantly, there are differences in the views held by PAD leaders and supporters. It is, after all, a short point which should not be obscured by, and does not warrant, your vituperation. Incidentally, I do not seek “cred” nor your “free advice”. I am, nevertheless, interested in your views. Do you not know any PAD “supporters” who are critical of the short-sightedness and naivete of PAD “leaders”?
PPP gone…
Under the given circumstances, only an enlightened government is able to solve the problems the country is facing, especialy in a period of a global financial crisis. Since 1932 it has been shown that elected governments tend to be inefficient, and elections do not work, because they do not raise the best of the best into positions of political power. A government is needed that is not only interested in power, but as well in responsibility! Such a government has to be based on Dharma in order to be above petty political struggles for power and economic gain and mere individual or vested interests. In other words, a Chakravartin and/or Dharmaraja is needed. As an intermediate measure, a regent should take over until monarchic rule can fully be established.
New Mandala in The Age
hi Karl,
i am happy that you and Joy seem to are coming to a concensus that probably is not too far from my point of view…
perhaps I have been a bit strong about the numbers… because we have just come out of a right-wing government in Australia that voted to help in the Iraq war against strong protests by me and a heap of other Australians on the streets… the two things I admire about the past PM is … his statement and actions that he accepted the numbers (both for the war and when he was beaten and even lost his seat after 10 years in power… and he responded to a massacre by a rogue individual by banning guns on the streets of Australia, and buying back heaps of hidden weapons under an amnesty.
also, just in case you are from germany… I seem to remeber the Greens objected to the vote that sent German troops to assist the Iraq war.
anyway, enough… at least we all believe in everyone getting to vote and choose their government!
thanks for corresponding
PPP gone…
can we get a translation?
PPP gone…
Well, that’s coup #19 done. All fixed in time for the big day.
The army didn’t even have to get the tanks out this time – they got the courts to do their dirty work for them.
Congratulations, Thailand!
PS: Can we now have the photo of boofhead removed from the homepage?
PPP gone…
A judicial coup indeed. As a thai, I think this is a deceitful scheme that doesn’t even have a good camouflage. People will see through this. The court has lost its credibility. I hope this incident will open more eyes. PPP might be gone but People Power will grow stronger.
Restraint is discredited
Anthony said –
>Rather than speculate about the motives of PAD participants and supporters why not ask them to state them? There is nothing particularly difficult about this: there is no secret as to who they are, where they are or what they are doing.
Well, instead of talking about what people on the forum are saying, why not tell us what these women said to you? That might be a useful contribution.
Basically all you are saying now is ‘Nyah nyah, you’re wrong, I know the truth, and now I’m not telling you because you all are being nasty to me.”
As for asking about the guns, the point is that the answer you will often get is that “The PAD have no guns,” which I believe offers a useful look into the mindset of PAD supporters.
Marty has it quite right, there is huge difference between the views of PAD leaders and most of the people following them. My sarcastic reference to these women (who are not friends of your, just people you “know personally,” oh my apologies for that woeful misrepresentation) not carrying guns was apparently a failed effort to convey the same point.
You said: “On the contrary, my object (plainly misunderstood by you) was to draw attention to the fact that not all supporters of the PAD are part of a homogeneous mass.”
Point taken. Probably the reason it was misunderstood is that no one had been pushing the point, but if you were left with that impression that it was a major issue here, it’s reasonable to try to discuss it. Just don’t be taken aback at the reaction — your argument was not exactly to the point.
Apologies too for jumping to the conclusion that these friends, oops, sorry, “well-educated, well-travelled and thinking Thai people…. many women, some of whom are academics and successful business-women…” are nice.
Free advice: writing about the issues instead of parsing sentences will probably win you more cred here.
End of the royal taboo?
I agree with ken. This thing is just getting started. Ten years ago this was unthinkable . People opposing the all mighty yellow?! As a thai and a pad supporter, in the past week i have been re-thinking where i stand. I live in ko samui and have friends from isaan ( udon thani) and asked one of them why do u guys love thaksin so much? he lies ,cheats and steals. Hi reply was ” So do all politicians. But Thaksin gave us money, its not his own but he made it available to us in our times of trouble. ” Thai people ,especially poor people do not forget a favour. (bun khun)You give them an inch and they will give you a mile.”
Help
The numbers that Hla Oo cites are truly mind boggling. Where did he ever come up with 5000 Special Forces in Thailand?
I don’t think that there are 5000 Special Forces total. And in Thailand there are maybe 15 guys, in a training capacity to the Thai army.
But let’s put those fantastic numbers aside for a moment. Nowhere in his reply did Hla Oo address the original post by me.
If we are to take at face value that the Burmese junta fears an external threat, how does that equate to murdering tens of thousands of its own people, illegal drug manufacturing and smuggling, and sex slavery?
Hla Oo deftly dances away from the original argument. This is like stating that people who didn’t vote for Obama are racists and secretly in the klan.
People bring up legitimate claims against the junta, and Hla Oo replies that we’re only making these statements because we hate the Burmese. I wore a black t-shirt today, which proves that I hate all Burmese. It’s ridiculous.
Hla Oo, you’re trying to defend the indefensible. And you’re doing a very poor job of it.
New Mandala in The Age
Dear Joy, I completely agree with you about what you say about ‘elitist classes’. In the future the Thai people will have to think about how to get out of this stranglehood. At the moment I only see Thaksin as being more dangerous.
This is what I believe in – if people listen to each other we will find common ground even if we disagree about all kind of things. And based on this common ground we can build a future.
There must be participation by all in society, and all who contribute should get a fair share (but I am not for free lunches).
New Mandala in The Age
Karl, I do like your idea about democracy. I do not major in political science and I appreciate your insights very much. I agree with most of what u said above. However, i think the crisis within Thailand right now is the result of the the elistist/royalist class ‘s struggle to hold on to power at all costs. Taksin, despite his wealth, is merely a politician and no matter how authoritarian or corrupt he used to be or has been, he is no longer the major player in Thai politics right now. I maybe wrong but… I see the elistist class (whose wealth is immense but pretends to preach ‘sufficiency economy’) that has ruled Thailand for an age and imposed oppressive laws on Thai people’s freedom of expression (and inhibited)our (Thais’) critical thinking as more destructive to Thailand’s progress. I look forward to more of yr post, especially for yr arguments that differ or contradict mine , because I believe I can gain more from different than similar opinion.
Restraint is discredited
Anthony, you said: “Rather than speculate about the motives of PAD participants and supporters why not ask them to state them? There is nothing particularly difficult about this: there is no secret as to who they are, where they are or what they are doing.” My point was that there is no need – you’ve missed the boat on this – as there is an “official” media on what PAD thinks and most especially its leadership, so why not use it? If that is personal denigration then you are probably rather too sensitive.
Restraint is discredited
Anthony, I’ll defend you..:D
There are huge differenced between the agendas of some PAD leaders and followers.
Probably a very select few followers know who is supporting the PAD, the rest are just followers. We all suspect and we all surmise but we could all be wrong. If the PAD manages to subvert democracy and manages to wrestle in some even more sinister idea than “New Politics”. I feel there will be a lot of Pad’s supporters, who in good faith believe what they are going is right and just, will feel let down and duped.
Throughout history the sheep of the world have always blindly followed very suspect leaders. It must be a human trait to try and self destruct. Thailand is in the post Thaksin era after following him and now we have a new group that borders on a Cult that a few thousand well offs feel they should follow to the death. My hope is Sondi and Chanlong don’t make them drink the Kool-Aid, before they give up the airports.
Too late for royal intervention?
US Observer: I think you are right. Dissolving the house now means only 30 days for MPs to be in a new party. The 60 days following dissolution of a party does seem to opens a chance for disqualifying people as Section 108 says, “The King has the prerogative to dissolve the House of Representatives for a new election of members of the House. The dissolution of the House of Representatives shall be made in the form of a Royal Decree in which the day for a new general election must be fixed for not less than forty-five days but not more than sixty days as from the day the House of Representatives has been dissolved and such election day must be the same throughout the Kingdom.” So there is room to move if the powers that be want to keep all government MPs out.
Help
Sadly, (although somewhat predictably) this discussion has fallen right into the polarised debate which, as noted above, “has hindered the development of more innovative and just forms of engagement with contemporary Burma.”
Hla Oo, you’re right to criticise the imposition of foreign ‘solutions’ to the challenges faced by people in Burma. However, even if harmful sanctions were removed, the humanitarian and human rights challenges facing people in Burma (which you are correct to point out arose in the context of civil war and the struggles of World War 2 and even before) would not disappear over night. And whatever you or I may say about it, there will continue to be UN agencies, bilateral agencies, international NGOs and independent foreign volunteers (as there are in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos) attempting to ‘help’ address these concerns.
The problem is not so much the desire to ‘help’ but the imposition of external ‘solutions’ on the people of Burma which ignore the views and concerns of the people in the country. However, it is important to acknowledge that many people in Burma likewise view the SPDC’s ‘solutions’ to these challenges as inappropriate impositions (please read the testimonies in the KHRG report). The people of Burma (as distinct from the military) are presently engaging on a daily basis with the humanitarian and human rights challenges they face. External attempts to ‘help’ people in Burma which neglect these indigenous ‘self help’ efforts merely perpetuate the exclusion of local people from the political processes (like humanitarian relief programmes) which affect them.
Moe Aung, you’re correct to note the need for a political resolution to the State-society conflict in Burma. However, pinning all hopes on regime change misses important opportunities to address humanitarian and human rights concerns prior to national-level political reform. Politics is more than just the struggle over formal State authority and democracy is more than just multiparty elections. There are currently opportunities to democratise on-the-ground political processes which may be of more immediate concern to many people in Burma than a State-level democratic transition.
Many of these issues are addressed in depth in the Karen Human Rights Group Village Agency report. I strongly encourage anyone interested in contemporary Burma to read it.
[Also, on SPDC threat perceptions, I recommend Andrew Selth’s article “Burma and the Threat of Invasion: Regime Fantasy or Strategic Reality?” On the fallacy of the Chinese Signals Intelligence base on the Coco Islands, see Des Ball’s article “Chinese Whispers: The Great Coco Island Mystery.”]
New Mandala in The Age
I very strongly feel that democracy is not about numbers but about consensus and participation. There might be cultural differences. There are societies which admire competition and winner takes all, and there are societies which do put more emphasis on togetherness. I do not think that the latter are worse off, I rather think the opposite.
I am coming out of a consensus system. I would say for 70% of the policies you do not need any voting at all – sometimes quite long discussions allow to arrive at solutions which are accepted by all -, for the rest voting may be necessary. And then there are cases in which votes are being taken and some members absolutely and fundamentally disagree. In these cases, things are being thought through again and not simply pushed through. No group and society can survive peacefully in the long term when parts of it are being pushed out of the participation.
The alternative in Thailand is not ‘rule by the people’ versus ‘rule by some families’ but ‘rule by one person’ versus ‘rule by oligarchies’. I do not like the latter neither but it is far better then rule by a very ruthless, greedy and megalomaniac ‘one person’. Does anyone really believe in the spin that Thaksin rule is rule by the people? I am really stunned.
End of the royal taboo?
I hear the ABC’s (Australia) experienced correspondent Geoff (?) Thompson is increasingly cutting Bangkok correspondent Karen Percy’s pro-PAD lunch, and for the first time, on ‘The World Today’ mention made of the man at the top.
For once on the ABC, a critical assessment of the situation, including the possible outcome of the CC decision. I hope the they keep it up.
End of the royal taboo?
Oliver, That’s my ultimate wish too. As a Thai, we were taught only one version of history when we were young, but those who are exposed to more ‘progressive’ writing about Thailand and who care to learn more can eventually see things for what they are. I’m not saying that we have reached the ‘ultimate truth’ , because obviously, there is no such a thinng, but we have learned to question existing verities and eager to open ourselves to constructive criticism. I think older generations of Thais such as Jitra Pumisak, Kulap Saipradit and Seni Saowapong had posed significant challenge to oppressive status quo in Thailand in their works .. e.g in Sena Saowapong’s “Ghosts’ (Pi-sart, in Thai) .. Kulap also wrote very interesting essays about democracy during his stay in Australia (see “Kulap in OZ” by scot Barme).. well I’m not advocating Maoist ideology here, but just mention them because their thoughts are also crucial in contesting age-old hegemony from the elistist class.