Excellent comment RK. Many Of the most vulnerable grassroots level Red Shirts have fled to the Lao PDR – where it is quite easy for journalists to find out their perspective. The Lao population is highly sympathetic. If there is an uprising in Isaarn, I doubt the Lao Politburo would be able to restrain very strong support for their Isaarn phi-nong.
David Camroux is exactly right. Only GENUINE Federalism can now save these countries – such as Myanmar, and especially Thailand – from breaking up. General Prayut has instead been re-centralising. Can Myanmar achieve the way Thailand should go. ?
Oh, I thought that large scale murder of members of a specific religious minority by the religious hierarchy and adherents to the majority religion does constitute religious persecution and does imply the involvement of religion. But then, I obviously didn’t factor in the great boogeyman of ‘US corporate capitalism’ and use big words like ‘capitalist theocracy’. Sorry, but it does seem my views are naive in the extreme.
Frankly, citing John Pilger as your authoritative reference does not influence me at all. Pilger made his name from simplistic, popularist left-wing commentary, which is very obvious in the quote that you have chosen. Even conjuring up the term ‘capitalist theocracy’ seems nothing more than a typical Pilgeristic journalistic device to sound authoritative.
I think I’ll stick to my view of the current and very obvious religiously inspired persecution of minorities, perhaps modifying my terminology slightly to include ‘political Buddhism’ to reflect the same concept as ‘political Islam’. Seems more appropriate than ‘capitalist theocracy’.
Neptunian echoes my sentiments, which NM would not publish, so let’s see how far this one travels. Mahathir is a bad man. Full stop. He should not even be a topic for discussion here, and least of all in Malaysia.
A more salient comparaison could perhaps be with Scotland after the Brexit vote where there is a real possibility of a second referendum that would lead to Scotland’s independence from the UK. Also, in Northern Ireland Sinn Fein has suggested a referendum on Irish unification.
As far as ‘own goals’ are concerned the English have achieved a ‘double whammy’: leaving the EU without any certainty that Britain can in the future benefit from the Common Market, and, potentially, causing the collapse of the UK itself. No wonder that in London (whose voters chose to remain in the EU) the idea of secession from the UK is being mooted, albeit not very seriously.
For all its shortcoming, what the European experience, does indicate is that a macro-regional polity – with a degree of supra-nationalism and the provision of empowerment at the local level – can provide the political space for micro-regional autonomy and assuage nationalist claims amongst peoples with their own sense of being part of a distinct nation. On numerous visits to Scotland and the north and south of Ireland I have always been struck how a strong sense of Scottish and of Irish nationalism sits comfortably with a proud sense of European identity.
Could ASEAN one day perform this role in Southeast Asia? Perhaps, but I doubt it given that supra-nationalism is anathema to ASEAN’s political elites. It would seem that this leaves as the only option for Myanmar (as for Switzerland, a non-EU European country) the construction of a truly federal system with significant powers and resources granted at the local level.
Europe is bound to maintain their human rights values to (try to) maintain their soft power. ASEAN does not care about such. The thing is ASEAN has no soft power because it is still developing.
Lower standards of living ensures that the influx of migrants will not pour into ASEAN for decades.
ASEAN is based loosely on the EU. It only aspires to be only an economic bloc and has a policy of non-interference between each country’s politics. Which is the obvious move given the more variations in history, political structure, religion and linguistics.
The ECSC was also a peace project. It was established in the hopes that pooling coal and steel production would – in the words of the Declaration – make war between historic rivals France and Germany “not merely unthinkable, but materially impossible”.
Other quotes from the declaration:
“The pooling of coal and steel production… will change the destinies of those regions which have long been devoted to the manufacture of munitions of war, of which they have been the most constant victims.”
Ha ha ha,
To quote mahathir, who was the Grand daddy of corription is just a joke. Do you know why the average educated Malaysian who had lived through mahathir’s era don’t listen to him at all?
1. he started massive corruption in big infra projects. Some good, some white elephants, some to feed his ego. All includes big siphoning off of public money by cronies.
2. He created monopolies for his cronies and throw anyone who opposes into jail.
3. This is the worst – He is responsible for the creation of Islamic bodies who were kept under control during his time, to be used as necessary. Like any while dogs, once bred can easily go out of control – as it is happenning in malaysia now.
3b. The banning of usage of “Islamic” words such a “Allah”, which created a hugh controversy a couple of years ago, is the creation of mahathir (his officers, anyway) (You can look it up). Similarly, there are also more than 30 words that Non-Muslims cannot use!!!
If that is the person, you look up to and wants to be the “Savior” Allah helps us all….
Some of Mahathir’s predictions have already happened. The Immigration Dept. is engaged in routine extortion of foreign workers on a massive scale, and even participate in “slave labour”. The Police are predatory, and will not do anything unless “greased” . This sickness permeates all government offices , and the situation has deteriorated rapidly under Najib. Thailand is now a much “cleaner” country than Malaysia. As a frequent visitor I have observed these changes. I foolishly invested in Malaysia in 2014…..the biggest mistake of my life!
‘Boat people’ are not attempting to escape religious persecution in Myanmar. The conflict in Rakhine State is about land ownership and illegal immigration, and it has nothing to do with religion.
As for Brexit, it is primarily a rejection of US corporate capitalism. According to John Pilger, ‘The aim of this extremism is to install a permanent, capitalist theocracy that ensures a two-thirds society, with the majority divided and indebted, managed by a corporate class, and a permanent working poor.’
Amongst other issues, there are two main factors that differentiate the EU from ASEAN. The first is the common currency, and the second is the attitude towards immigration. If the European countries had kept the sovereign currencies, then the local currency, for example the Greek Drachma, if it had been allowed to float, would have depreciated, thus allowing Greek exports to be cheaper on the world market, with the economic benefits that would have arisen. The ‘strength’ of the currency is dependent on the strength of the economy, and the strength of the economy to a great extent depends on the strength of the currency. Greece had a weak economy but a strong currency; the Euro, which was a disastrous contradiction. ASEAN does not suffer that economic contradiction. Secondly, the attitude towards immigration, and the current circumstances regarding immigration, are totally different in ASEAN. ASEAN governments are not the least bit coy about closing their borders against unwanted immigrants, as shown by the inhumane treatment of ‘boat people’ attempting to escape religious persecution in Myanmar. Limiting immigration and having strong laws governing ‘aliens’ and severely limiting the rights of ‘aliens’ to enter and live in the country are usual in ASEAN countries. Nobody cares, nobody cries ‘racism’, ‘Islamophobia’ is a uniquely western term with no currency or equivalent in ASEAN countries. So, as far as the vast majority in ASEAN are concerned, immigration is not an issue. Also, even within this highly restrictive legal situation, ASEAN countries do not have millions of disaffected or tormented ‘aliens’, predominantly of an almost antagonistic culture and religion, demanding to be let in and accommodated. An associated difference between the EU and ASEAN is that each country in ASEAN, as a result of the immigration laws and attitudes, still have predominantly homogenous population ethnically and religiously. Where there are religious minorities (Muslims in Myanmar, Muslims in the south of Thailand, both predominantly Buddhist countries, Christians and ethnic Chinese in Muslim Malaysia) there are problems similar to the EU with the current flood of Muslim migrants. To demand a stop to or for restrictions on this mass influx to Europe is to be called ‘racist’ or ‘fascist’ or ‘bigot’ or ‘xenophobic’, in Europe, but in ASEAN it would be considered appropriate protection of the Culture. A final comment is that Europeans are far less willing to conform to governmental restrictions and restraints than populations in ASEAN, and European governments are far less willing to force such conformity on the population than is evident in ASEAN.
ASEAN is a totally ineffectual rich elite club that did nothing about transborder issues, a raisin d’être of performance, such as haze and boat people from Bangladesh and Rakhine state Burma
China serves a warning to ASEAN, and Brexit makes that warning more imminent and existential. That would be the more accurate reading of what has happened. UK freed from EU trade restrictions does not harm the UK, neither does it harm China, which will continue to conquer and divide ASEAN. That is a more relevant impact on ASEAN than Brexit directly.
Myitsone dam the deal that SPDC promised the Chinese log-Stock-barrels, can be a way to ROL if NLD Dominated Hluttthaw does it right.
Re negotiating for ‘a more advantage terms’ instead of out right cancelling. It will be hard to imagine some of the 25% of none NLD/the military voting against properly draft resolutions.
This important challenge will set the Hlutthaw as law makers establishing any future challenges to be resolve through voting. It will be up to DASSK and his NLD cohorts to explain to the citizenry as well as assuring the guns of their good faith.
A win win for ROL as well as setting precedent for any future problems including the Kala in Yakhine which the west seem to hold to be more important.
If Britain can leave the artificial construct EU, then Isaarn and Lanna can also leave this artificial construct “Thailand”. Secession is now the world’s political currency.
Excellent article / analysis. I will be making yet another of my many trips to Malaysia, soon. Thank you very much for warning me of this complicated, dangerous political situation, which I will take the utmost care to avoid. New Mandala is excellent – in so many ways. Not least on warning Aussies and others, of dangers. Thanks to all – especially this author.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Thailand’s iron fist and an academic’s family
Excellent comment RK. Many Of the most vulnerable grassroots level Red Shirts have fled to the Lao PDR – where it is quite easy for journalists to find out their perspective. The Lao population is highly sympathetic. If there is an uprising in Isaarn, I doubt the Lao Politburo would be able to restrain very strong support for their Isaarn phi-nong.
Secession in a democratic system?
David Camroux is exactly right. Only GENUINE Federalism can now save these countries – such as Myanmar, and especially Thailand – from breaking up. General Prayut has instead been re-centralising. Can Myanmar achieve the way Thailand should go. ?
Thailand’s iron fist and an academic’s family
The headline photo of Prime Minister General Prayhut is perfect to show him as the poster boy for the ‘Thailand, The Land of Smiles’.
Brexit serves as a warning to ASEAN
Oh, I thought that large scale murder of members of a specific religious minority by the religious hierarchy and adherents to the majority religion does constitute religious persecution and does imply the involvement of religion. But then, I obviously didn’t factor in the great boogeyman of ‘US corporate capitalism’ and use big words like ‘capitalist theocracy’. Sorry, but it does seem my views are naive in the extreme.
Frankly, citing John Pilger as your authoritative reference does not influence me at all. Pilger made his name from simplistic, popularist left-wing commentary, which is very obvious in the quote that you have chosen. Even conjuring up the term ‘capitalist theocracy’ seems nothing more than a typical Pilgeristic journalistic device to sound authoritative.
I think I’ll stick to my view of the current and very obvious religiously inspired persecution of minorities, perhaps modifying my terminology slightly to include ‘political Buddhism’ to reflect the same concept as ‘political Islam’. Seems more appropriate than ‘capitalist theocracy’.
Mahathir and Malaysia’s money politics
Neptunian echoes my sentiments, which NM would not publish, so let’s see how far this one travels. Mahathir is a bad man. Full stop. He should not even be a topic for discussion here, and least of all in Malaysia.
Secession in a democratic system?
A more salient comparaison could perhaps be with Scotland after the Brexit vote where there is a real possibility of a second referendum that would lead to Scotland’s independence from the UK. Also, in Northern Ireland Sinn Fein has suggested a referendum on Irish unification.
As far as ‘own goals’ are concerned the English have achieved a ‘double whammy’: leaving the EU without any certainty that Britain can in the future benefit from the Common Market, and, potentially, causing the collapse of the UK itself. No wonder that in London (whose voters chose to remain in the EU) the idea of secession from the UK is being mooted, albeit not very seriously.
For all its shortcoming, what the European experience, does indicate is that a macro-regional polity – with a degree of supra-nationalism and the provision of empowerment at the local level – can provide the political space for micro-regional autonomy and assuage nationalist claims amongst peoples with their own sense of being part of a distinct nation. On numerous visits to Scotland and the north and south of Ireland I have always been struck how a strong sense of Scottish and of Irish nationalism sits comfortably with a proud sense of European identity.
Could ASEAN one day perform this role in Southeast Asia? Perhaps, but I doubt it given that supra-nationalism is anathema to ASEAN’s political elites. It would seem that this leaves as the only option for Myanmar (as for Switzerland, a non-EU European country) the construction of a truly federal system with significant powers and resources granted at the local level.
Brexit serves as a warning to ASEAN
Europe is bound to maintain their human rights values to (try to) maintain their soft power. ASEAN does not care about such. The thing is ASEAN has no soft power because it is still developing.
Lower standards of living ensures that the influx of migrants will not pour into ASEAN for decades.
What Brexit means for ASEAN
ASEAN is based loosely on the EU. It only aspires to be only an economic bloc and has a policy of non-interference between each country’s politics. Which is the obvious move given the more variations in history, political structure, religion and linguistics.
The ECSC was also a peace project. It was established in the hopes that pooling coal and steel production would – in the words of the Declaration – make war between historic rivals France and Germany “not merely unthinkable, but materially impossible”.
Other quotes from the declaration:
“The pooling of coal and steel production… will change the destinies of those regions which have long been devoted to the manufacture of munitions of war, of which they have been the most constant victims.”
Mahathir and Malaysia’s money politics
Ha ha ha,
To quote mahathir, who was the Grand daddy of corription is just a joke. Do you know why the average educated Malaysian who had lived through mahathir’s era don’t listen to him at all?
1. he started massive corruption in big infra projects. Some good, some white elephants, some to feed his ego. All includes big siphoning off of public money by cronies.
2. He created monopolies for his cronies and throw anyone who opposes into jail.
3. This is the worst – He is responsible for the creation of Islamic bodies who were kept under control during his time, to be used as necessary. Like any while dogs, once bred can easily go out of control – as it is happenning in malaysia now.
3b. The banning of usage of “Islamic” words such a “Allah”, which created a hugh controversy a couple of years ago, is the creation of mahathir (his officers, anyway) (You can look it up). Similarly, there are also more than 30 words that Non-Muslims cannot use!!!
If that is the person, you look up to and wants to be the “Savior” Allah helps us all….
Mahathir and Malaysia’s money politics
Some of Mahathir’s predictions have already happened. The Immigration Dept. is engaged in routine extortion of foreign workers on a massive scale, and even participate in “slave labour”. The Police are predatory, and will not do anything unless “greased” . This sickness permeates all government offices , and the situation has deteriorated rapidly under Najib. Thailand is now a much “cleaner” country than Malaysia. As a frequent visitor I have observed these changes. I foolishly invested in Malaysia in 2014…..the biggest mistake of my life!
Brexit serves as a warning to ASEAN
‘Boat people’ are not attempting to escape religious persecution in Myanmar. The conflict in Rakhine State is about land ownership and illegal immigration, and it has nothing to do with religion.
As for Brexit, it is primarily a rejection of US corporate capitalism. According to John Pilger, ‘The aim of this extremism is to install a permanent, capitalist theocracy that ensures a two-thirds society, with the majority divided and indebted, managed by a corporate class, and a permanent working poor.’
Brexit serves as a warning to ASEAN
Amongst other issues, there are two main factors that differentiate the EU from ASEAN. The first is the common currency, and the second is the attitude towards immigration. If the European countries had kept the sovereign currencies, then the local currency, for example the Greek Drachma, if it had been allowed to float, would have depreciated, thus allowing Greek exports to be cheaper on the world market, with the economic benefits that would have arisen. The ‘strength’ of the currency is dependent on the strength of the economy, and the strength of the economy to a great extent depends on the strength of the currency. Greece had a weak economy but a strong currency; the Euro, which was a disastrous contradiction. ASEAN does not suffer that economic contradiction. Secondly, the attitude towards immigration, and the current circumstances regarding immigration, are totally different in ASEAN. ASEAN governments are not the least bit coy about closing their borders against unwanted immigrants, as shown by the inhumane treatment of ‘boat people’ attempting to escape religious persecution in Myanmar. Limiting immigration and having strong laws governing ‘aliens’ and severely limiting the rights of ‘aliens’ to enter and live in the country are usual in ASEAN countries. Nobody cares, nobody cries ‘racism’, ‘Islamophobia’ is a uniquely western term with no currency or equivalent in ASEAN countries. So, as far as the vast majority in ASEAN are concerned, immigration is not an issue. Also, even within this highly restrictive legal situation, ASEAN countries do not have millions of disaffected or tormented ‘aliens’, predominantly of an almost antagonistic culture and religion, demanding to be let in and accommodated. An associated difference between the EU and ASEAN is that each country in ASEAN, as a result of the immigration laws and attitudes, still have predominantly homogenous population ethnically and religiously. Where there are religious minorities (Muslims in Myanmar, Muslims in the south of Thailand, both predominantly Buddhist countries, Christians and ethnic Chinese in Muslim Malaysia) there are problems similar to the EU with the current flood of Muslim migrants. To demand a stop to or for restrictions on this mass influx to Europe is to be called ‘racist’ or ‘fascist’ or ‘bigot’ or ‘xenophobic’, in Europe, but in ASEAN it would be considered appropriate protection of the Culture. A final comment is that Europeans are far less willing to conform to governmental restrictions and restraints than populations in ASEAN, and European governments are far less willing to force such conformity on the population than is evident in ASEAN.
‘What a piece of work is a man!’
Thanks for all your comments. There is of course many more parts! I will review the biography at some moment when ambiguity is less necessary.
Brexit serves as a warning to ASEAN
ASEAN is a totally ineffectual rich elite club that did nothing about transborder issues, a raisin d’être of performance, such as haze and boat people from Bangladesh and Rakhine state Burma
Brexit serves as a warning to ASEAN
China serves a warning to ASEAN, and Brexit makes that warning more imminent and existential. That would be the more accurate reading of what has happened. UK freed from EU trade restrictions does not harm the UK, neither does it harm China, which will continue to conquer and divide ASEAN. That is a more relevant impact on ASEAN than Brexit directly.
The King is (nearly) dead: long live the King?
Indeed, three INNOCENTS – for this very cleverly set up crime.
Academic analysis in the age of reform
Myitsone dam the deal that SPDC promised the Chinese log-Stock-barrels, can be a way to ROL if NLD Dominated Hluttthaw does it right.
Re negotiating for ‘a more advantage terms’ instead of out right cancelling. It will be hard to imagine some of the 25% of none NLD/the military voting against properly draft resolutions.
This important challenge will set the Hlutthaw as law makers establishing any future challenges to be resolve through voting. It will be up to DASSK and his NLD cohorts to explain to the citizenry as well as assuring the guns of their good faith.
A win win for ROL as well as setting precedent for any future problems including the Kala in Yakhine which the west seem to hold to be more important.
What Brexit means for ASEAN
If Britain can leave the artificial construct EU, then Isaarn and Lanna can also leave this artificial construct “Thailand”. Secession is now the world’s political currency.
Mahathir prepares for Najib confrontation
Excellent article / analysis. I will be making yet another of my many trips to Malaysia, soon. Thank you very much for warning me of this complicated, dangerous political situation, which I will take the utmost care to avoid. New Mandala is excellent – in so many ways. Not least on warning Aussies and others, of dangers. Thanks to all – especially this author.
The King is (nearly) dead: long live the King?
Three people were hanged for this crime.