The Islamic kingdom of Aceh Darussalam was founded by Sultan Johan Syah on the 22nd of April 1205 CE.
It would appear that you are averse to very idea of Arab influence in Malaysia and Indonesia. The fact is that Arab influence stretches from Andalusia to China. Malaysia and Indonesia belong to Dar al-Islam and the centre of their world is Mecca, in Arabia.
My conclusion, on the basis of your inexplicable reference to terrorism and the PLO in reply to an article about Indonesia, Mr. Cohen of Maryland, USA, is that you may have an unspoken political agenda of your own.
First of all – the Red/Yellow conflict is most definitely *not* caused by extreme poverty and lack of education. On the opposite, there is no extreme poverty existing in Thailand anymore, just pockets of poverty, and those play hardly any role whatsoever in the conflict. The demographics are quite clear about that – depending on statistic around 8 to 10% of the population is under the absolute poverty line. Which isn’t that bad, quite en par with the developed world. Thailand has one of the highest literacy rates in the region, a functioning health system, developed strong middle classes, also in rural areas, and is a solid upper middle income country.
This conflict is over participation and identity.
Rumors over Red Shirts being paid to attend the 2010 protests… sorry, but we cannot discuss here based on rumors.
Reality is that yes, many Red Shirts received allowances, for attendance, for petrol, guards received daily income. However – the same counts for the PDRC and the PAD as well.
A more interesting aspect are the mechanics of funding, especially on grassroots level. Doubtlessly large sums of money came from politicians, corporations, etc. (stages have to be paid, as have sound systems, and food, etc). A far more fascinating subject is that before the 2010 protests i have observed and photographed many grassroots organizations doing their own fund raising, by Chinese table dinners, concerts, donation boxes at small stages, and advertisement revenues from community radio stations. That money then was used to support protesters going to Bangkok.
Many Red Shirts from middle classes, both urban and rural, funded themselves, and spent much of their money supporting other Red Shirts.
Most important – allowances received says nothing about political convictions (look at the beginnings of the union movement in Europe and the different socialist parties before labor laws were introduced – also there funding was needed to sustain strikes, etc). Without strong political convictions the Red Shirt movement would not have managed to exist until today, for the past ten years, and its political discourse developed quite massively.
Too bad about all the conflict? I would not say so. Thailand needed and still needs this conflict. This conflict led to a rapid and strong increase in political awareness – which is the foundation of a future sustainable democracy in Thailand.
What is the result of severe poverty and lack of education combined with extreme greed and corruption? What is democracy without the foundation of a strong rule of law?
Although allegedly unproven, how far back does the tradition of vote buying go?
There were rumours of Red Shirt protesters being bused into Bangkok from the north and northeast receiving 1500-2000 Baht in order to make up the numbers. Security guards had to be hired to stop them from getting off the buses and immediately heading back up north with money in hand. The general population was actually laughing and joking about this.
Beautiful, livable country for all with great people. Too bad about all the conflict.
Considerable Arabization did not take place in the 13th Century as Islam had not yet arrived in the Archipelago, and there was certainly no Arabization in the Majapahit and Sriwidjaya Empires. You are a novice, Mr Smith and stop talking nonsense. What you write is laughable. You do not know Indonesia (or Malaysia) at all. You certainly have not lived there for 44 years and studied there, that is patently obvious.
You are right, Mr Beale. Turnbull’s first overseas visit was indeed to New Zealand.
This mistake on the part of the author is not surprising. An academic who can write that barriers to trade are ‘deep’ rather than ‘high’, and that ‘the Abbott government oversaw allegations of spying’ probably dashed this off pretty quickly. The wonder is why New Mandala thought it worth publishing this post. It is a good example of the shallowness of so much Australian academic commentary on Indonesia.
I was pleased that Turnbull went first to New Zealand, since prime ministers had been forming the habit of making Jakarta their first destination without giving much thought to its value. Before Abbott won the 2013 election, I suggested to his office that it would be a mistake for him to carry out his promise to make Indonesia the object of his first overseas visit. Naturally this suggestion fell on deaf ears. And what a harvest Abbott reaped in ‘resetting’ the relationship with Indonesia! Dr Strating reminded us that Abbott’s first overseas visit was to Indonesia, but it doesn’t seem to have occurred to her that he obtained no advantage from it.
Has n’t Brexit now clearly shown that democracy means the people will make stupid, self-defeating decisions ?Instead of shoot-yourself-in-the-foot direct democracy, is n’t the Myanmar/ Thailand’s Prayut military guided
democracy, a better way to go? At least for these two countries, at their particular staged a of development ?
Interesting article but I think Vietnamese fisher-folk (I refer to folk rather than men because in the value chain women are also actively involved) face as much threat from companies such as the Taiwanese owned Formosa Ha Tinh Steel Corporation that has invested over US$22 billion in SE Asia’s largest rolling steel mill and the scene of anti-Chinese “riots” in 2014). This company was responsible for the temporary decimation of close off-shore fishing stocks in Ha Tinh, Quang Binh, Quang Tri and Thua Thien Hue Provinces and significantly impacted upon the livelihoods of fisher-folk in each of these provinces (I know because I was working in all four provinces at the time). Initially the Government supported the company and said it was not at fault but more recently it found it was and the company offered to pay US$500 million in compensation although it blamed its “contractors” not itself. This company has a wonderful sense of corporate social responsibility and during the project design and implementation phase with the “connivance” of the Ha Tinh Provincial People’s Committee rode roughshod over the rights of locally affected people.
Vietnam of course wants to attract foreign investors and promoting investment in the non-agricultural sector is the quickest way to improve the local population’s economic living standards (the social and environmental impacts are another issue). However, large companies such as Formosa (and issue is not just in Ha Tinh) have used their economic muscle to circumvent Vietnam’s own laws and policies. But what this company managed in Ha Tinh along an undisputed coastline has probably a greater impact upon Vietnam than the shenanigans in the Bien Dong (East Sea) or Nan Hai (South Sea) although no doubt most Vietnamese are more concerned with what occurs in the Bien Dong.
There are very old Arab clans in the Gulf who are ethnically Malay. I am not talking about Indonesians who have married Arabs in recent times. Considerable ‘arabization’ took place from the 13th century and this still has a living legacy in these old merchant families.
Present day ‘arabization’ is an entirely separate affair. Suffice to say it is hard to find anything good to say about the current Al-Saud clan.
Although Islam has taken many forms it is always based on the Quran and the Hadith. The Prophet himself was a Bedouin tribesman, as were all his supporters, reciters and commentators. So all the texts of Islam are thoroughly infused with the character of the Bedouin and the spirit of their desert home.
As a resident of the United States and a student of things Thai and Southeast Asian in the 1970s, I have had to restrain at least mild jealousy about New Mandala and ANU. Why is not Michigan or Cornell or Berkley or Washington that is hosting this forum, why not competing with it? But that is as it is, for reasons that might be worth some discussion sometime, but not here, not now. No. I am glad for New Mandala, glad that ANU has this commitment to Southeast Asia. And thankful that you are outside of Thailand. Congratulations on 10 years.
Inconclusive? I do not see responsible parties in the either 2013/2014 nor in 2010 as obscure or inconclusive as regards which side killed whom.
Despite efforts to obfuscate the issue from certain elements of either side by more than questionable questionable logic, it is quite clear that the in 2010 killed soldiers died because of Red Shirt armed militants, apart from Private Narongrit Sala, who was killed in a friendly fire incident by fellow soldiers at the clash at the National Memorial ( http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Soldier-killed-by-friendly-fire-in-2010-clash-30205197.html ). The Yellow Shirt victim who died in the Silom incident died from an M79 Grenade fired by Red Shirt armed militants.
The around 80 Red Shirt protesters and other civilians died from military firing at them (so far all my research has found no evidence that any of these Red Shirt victims were armed militants, or so called MIB, they were all unarmed protesters).
The many court inquests so far were to the most part quite clear and explicitly stated that soldiers were responsible (such as the Channarong Ponsrila case, the Wat Pratum case, etc). A few cases were found inconclusive as the evidence against the military was not strong enough. Not a single court inquest so far proved the position of the Democrat Party and military that Red Shirt armed militants were responsible.
Based on this evidence you may want to rethink your position.
Absurd comments. Please argue with Hawking, not me. I put my trust in Hawking and (the late) Einstein, not you or my personal Bomoh, whom I go to humor him as much as anything else. You conflate faith and/or secular humanism with science, when CP Snow later showed they should not be conflated. As for Bedouin, all Arabians are originally Bedouin. There is no conflation. I never mentioned Yemeni, like Syed Alatas’ Hadramauti Yemeni ancestors. You conflate words you place in my mouth with your own illogic.
My problem with your commentary is your attitude. I am well familiar with mixed Indonesians, like former Foreign Minister Alwi Shihab and Malaysian intellectual and founder of Gerakan, Syed Alatas. You are entirely wrong. The Malays and other similar ethnic groups that often mixed with Arabs from the 17th to the 20th Century all consider themselves indigenous. Arabization is a new phenomenon, whether exhibited by the Islamic Parties in Indonesia or PAS in Malaysia, or individual indigenous individuals. Arabization is a foreign import and has nothing whatsoever to do with Indonesian or Malay Adat and, in fact, numerous Indonesians and Malays have criticized Arabization. Your are very ignorant, Islam was started by a Bedouin in Arabia, yes, but Lebanese are not Bedouin, Algerians are not Bedouin, Surinam Javanese are not Bedouin, Bangladeshis are no Bedouin. Malays do not import Sri Lankan Muslim culture, Malian Muslim culture or Lebanese Shi’a Muslim culture; they import, when done, ARAB Wahhabi culture. Your comments are not only generically ridiculous, they exhibit an ignorance of Malaysia and Indonesia. As I have said many times, I was born in Singapore in Malaya, pre-Independe, and I have spent 44 years in Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia. I knew Syed Alatas. Please do not lecture me, when you don’t even know the textbook. Mr. Smith, I am certain there is no witchcraft, I am certain that science is reality, and I am certain that you need help from a Bomoh.
“Economic diplomacy needs to reassure Indonesians that developing stronger economic links is for mutual benefit.”
The problem with that statement is that it is a lie. Australia and for that matter the World’s only interest in Indonesia in trade terms is cheap labour.
Just visit Thailand and you will see that it is the “new China” when Thai’s start demanding pay rises then they will head to Indonesia.
Indonesia being a Islamic state and having governance problems has scared off Investors but that cheap cheap labour is so hard to ignore.
Mr. Cohen, I do not share your sense of certainty, in any field of knowledge. I believe that what we call ‘the sum of human knowledge’ amounts to almost nothing in the scale of things. In any case, I am inclined to give more weight to the viewpoint of all the sages and holy men who have been revered by mankind since the dawn of history, than I am to the opinions of a handful of white men in white coats who have been around for just two centuries.
In the Gulf there are a few old mercantile families who have exclusively married Indonesian and Malay women for more than a thousand years. In appearance and customs they are SE Asian, but they are also Gulf Arabs. So the connection between these two cultures is rather deeper than you suggest.
‘…a form of Islam that is Bedouin-based and has nothing to do with Southeast Asia.’ All of Islam is ‘Bedouin-based’. My problem with your commentary is that you make a number of sweeping generalisations and conflate quite separate terms like ‘Arab’ and ‘Saudi’ and ‘Bedouin’ and ‘Wahhabi’.
I have no special need to contact the Indonesian Government Press Office. I will be convinced of my error if you could kindly quote any media report to the effect that the Saudi ambassador was asked to leave. The Aljazeera report of 23 June 2011, one among several I have read, refers merely to the recall of the Indonesian ambassador. A CNN report of about the same date mentions Marty Natalegawa’s calling in the Saudi ambassador to hand over a letter of protest to him.
Thank you Khun N-Nostitz for making the googling effort. I too googled and got the same inconclusive results as to which camp(s) were directly responsible, and in what proportion, to the 90 dead and some 2,000 injured and maimed during the bloody Red Shirts protests in year 2010.
But I leave you Khun N-Nostitz with an HRW report ‘Truth and Reconciliation’ excerpt I encountered while I googled:
“ On May 16, there was an uncompleted building near the Din Daeng barricade, next to a tall hotel. I saw two young boys wearing motorcycle helmets come to the front [of the fighting], and told them to go away because it was too dangerous, but they didn’t listen to me. There were some leaders of the barricades and they went to talk to the boys. Then I saw the boys helping to prepare the petrol bombs. Then the smallest of the boys, he looked about nine or ten, he came forward carrying a bunch of petrol bombs and he talked to one of the leaders. Then the smallest boy ran towards the uncompleted building in front of the barricade, hiding in the bushes as he went. I tried to follow him but I was too big to get in there. I lost sight of him, but an hour later there was a fire on the 10th floor of the building. He had walked all the way over there, then up, and started the fire. He then came back the same way and the same Red Shirt guy gave him a few hundred baht [worth a few US dollars]. I asked the boy why he had done this, and he said, laughing, ‘That’s my job, my job.’” – HRW interview with photojournalist Masaro Goto, Bangkok, June 11, 2010
You are right that until recently Vietnam, The Philippines, etc. treated territorial disputes between each other in terms of “might is right”. Now that China has trumped them at that game, they have, of course, changed strategy and will appeal to international law. International law enables small powers to unite in disputes with large ones, just as laws within a country can enable citizens to unite against a lawless central power and form their own lawful government. Just how effective domestic and international laws are, is a matter of politics and geopolitics. My assessment of the South China Sea dispute is that it is a testing ground of international law as a defence against imperialism. (Imperialism on the international scale being equivalent to absolutism within a country). The small powers may emerge with overwhelming world support. The outcome is not clear, just as the rule of law within a particular country may or may not (as in the case of Thailand) have developed into an adequate defence against absolutism. It is a mistake at this stage to back imperialism against international law, because the outcome is yet to be decided. It is also an indication of cynicism.
A victory for International law in the South China Sea could be the cause celèbre that unites all of the world’s small powers against imperialism, whether it be American, Chinese, Russian, British (English?), or European.
Conflict in the South China Sea between China and the United States would probably end in a sad victory for one or other brand of imperialism.
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Not right in Ramadan
The Islamic kingdom of Aceh Darussalam was founded by Sultan Johan Syah on the 22nd of April 1205 CE.
It would appear that you are averse to very idea of Arab influence in Malaysia and Indonesia. The fact is that Arab influence stretches from Andalusia to China. Malaysia and Indonesia belong to Dar al-Islam and the centre of their world is Mecca, in Arabia.
My conclusion, on the basis of your inexplicable reference to terrorism and the PLO in reply to an article about Indonesia, Mr. Cohen of Maryland, USA, is that you may have an unspoken political agenda of your own.
Red and Yellow in Germany
This is quite a mistaken view.
First of all – the Red/Yellow conflict is most definitely *not* caused by extreme poverty and lack of education. On the opposite, there is no extreme poverty existing in Thailand anymore, just pockets of poverty, and those play hardly any role whatsoever in the conflict. The demographics are quite clear about that – depending on statistic around 8 to 10% of the population is under the absolute poverty line. Which isn’t that bad, quite en par with the developed world. Thailand has one of the highest literacy rates in the region, a functioning health system, developed strong middle classes, also in rural areas, and is a solid upper middle income country.
This conflict is over participation and identity.
Rumors over Red Shirts being paid to attend the 2010 protests… sorry, but we cannot discuss here based on rumors.
Reality is that yes, many Red Shirts received allowances, for attendance, for petrol, guards received daily income. However – the same counts for the PDRC and the PAD as well.
A more interesting aspect are the mechanics of funding, especially on grassroots level. Doubtlessly large sums of money came from politicians, corporations, etc. (stages have to be paid, as have sound systems, and food, etc). A far more fascinating subject is that before the 2010 protests i have observed and photographed many grassroots organizations doing their own fund raising, by Chinese table dinners, concerts, donation boxes at small stages, and advertisement revenues from community radio stations. That money then was used to support protesters going to Bangkok.
Many Red Shirts from middle classes, both urban and rural, funded themselves, and spent much of their money supporting other Red Shirts.
Most important – allowances received says nothing about political convictions (look at the beginnings of the union movement in Europe and the different socialist parties before labor laws were introduced – also there funding was needed to sustain strikes, etc). Without strong political convictions the Red Shirt movement would not have managed to exist until today, for the past ten years, and its political discourse developed quite massively.
Too bad about all the conflict? I would not say so. Thailand needed and still needs this conflict. This conflict led to a rapid and strong increase in political awareness – which is the foundation of a future sustainable democracy in Thailand.
Red and Yellow in Germany
What is the result of severe poverty and lack of education combined with extreme greed and corruption? What is democracy without the foundation of a strong rule of law?
Although allegedly unproven, how far back does the tradition of vote buying go?
There were rumours of Red Shirt protesters being bused into Bangkok from the north and northeast receiving 1500-2000 Baht in order to make up the numbers. Security guards had to be hired to stop them from getting off the buses and immediately heading back up north with money in hand. The general population was actually laughing and joking about this.
Beautiful, livable country for all with great people. Too bad about all the conflict.
Banking on change in scandal-hit Malaysia
Malaysia will suffer reputational damage because of all these scandals in the eyes of the international financial world.
Not right in Ramadan
Considerable Arabization did not take place in the 13th Century as Islam had not yet arrived in the Archipelago, and there was certainly no Arabization in the Majapahit and Sriwidjaya Empires. You are a novice, Mr Smith and stop talking nonsense. What you write is laughable. You do not know Indonesia (or Malaysia) at all. You certainly have not lived there for 44 years and studied there, that is patently obvious.
The future of Australia-Indonesia relations
You are right, Mr Beale. Turnbull’s first overseas visit was indeed to New Zealand.
This mistake on the part of the author is not surprising. An academic who can write that barriers to trade are ‘deep’ rather than ‘high’, and that ‘the Abbott government oversaw allegations of spying’ probably dashed this off pretty quickly. The wonder is why New Mandala thought it worth publishing this post. It is a good example of the shallowness of so much Australian academic commentary on Indonesia.
I was pleased that Turnbull went first to New Zealand, since prime ministers had been forming the habit of making Jakarta their first destination without giving much thought to its value. Before Abbott won the 2013 election, I suggested to his office that it would be a mistake for him to carry out his promise to make Indonesia the object of his first overseas visit. Naturally this suggestion fell on deaf ears. And what a harvest Abbott reaped in ‘resetting’ the relationship with Indonesia! Dr Strating reminded us that Abbott’s first overseas visit was to Indonesia, but it doesn’t seem to have occurred to her that he obtained no advantage from it.
Turnbull did something different.
Keeping friends close, Thailand closer
Has n’t Brexit now clearly shown that democracy means the people will make stupid, self-defeating decisions ?Instead of shoot-yourself-in-the-foot direct democracy, is n’t the Myanmar/ Thailand’s Prayut military guided
democracy, a better way to go? At least for these two countries, at their particular staged a of development ?
Vietnamese fishermen versus China
Nguoi Phan Bien is a communist from Vietnam communist party which governs Vietnam by guns. Don’t waste your time.
Vietnamese fishermen versus China
Interesting article but I think Vietnamese fisher-folk (I refer to folk rather than men because in the value chain women are also actively involved) face as much threat from companies such as the Taiwanese owned Formosa Ha Tinh Steel Corporation that has invested over US$22 billion in SE Asia’s largest rolling steel mill and the scene of anti-Chinese “riots” in 2014). This company was responsible for the temporary decimation of close off-shore fishing stocks in Ha Tinh, Quang Binh, Quang Tri and Thua Thien Hue Provinces and significantly impacted upon the livelihoods of fisher-folk in each of these provinces (I know because I was working in all four provinces at the time). Initially the Government supported the company and said it was not at fault but more recently it found it was and the company offered to pay US$500 million in compensation although it blamed its “contractors” not itself. This company has a wonderful sense of corporate social responsibility and during the project design and implementation phase with the “connivance” of the Ha Tinh Provincial People’s Committee rode roughshod over the rights of locally affected people.
Vietnam of course wants to attract foreign investors and promoting investment in the non-agricultural sector is the quickest way to improve the local population’s economic living standards (the social and environmental impacts are another issue). However, large companies such as Formosa (and issue is not just in Ha Tinh) have used their economic muscle to circumvent Vietnam’s own laws and policies. But what this company managed in Ha Tinh along an undisputed coastline has probably a greater impact upon Vietnam than the shenanigans in the Bien Dong (East Sea) or Nan Hai (South Sea) although no doubt most Vietnamese are more concerned with what occurs in the Bien Dong.
Not right in Ramadan
There are very old Arab clans in the Gulf who are ethnically Malay. I am not talking about Indonesians who have married Arabs in recent times. Considerable ‘arabization’ took place from the 13th century and this still has a living legacy in these old merchant families.
Present day ‘arabization’ is an entirely separate affair. Suffice to say it is hard to find anything good to say about the current Al-Saud clan.
Although Islam has taken many forms it is always based on the Quran and the Hadith. The Prophet himself was a Bedouin tribesman, as were all his supporters, reciters and commentators. So all the texts of Islam are thoroughly infused with the character of the Bedouin and the spirit of their desert home.
Online media and repressive regimes
As a resident of the United States and a student of things Thai and Southeast Asian in the 1970s, I have had to restrain at least mild jealousy about New Mandala and ANU. Why is not Michigan or Cornell or Berkley or Washington that is hosting this forum, why not competing with it? But that is as it is, for reasons that might be worth some discussion sometime, but not here, not now. No. I am glad for New Mandala, glad that ANU has this commitment to Southeast Asia. And thankful that you are outside of Thailand. Congratulations on 10 years.
Red and Yellow in Germany
Inconclusive? I do not see responsible parties in the either 2013/2014 nor in 2010 as obscure or inconclusive as regards which side killed whom.
Despite efforts to obfuscate the issue from certain elements of either side by more than questionable questionable logic, it is quite clear that the in 2010 killed soldiers died because of Red Shirt armed militants, apart from Private Narongrit Sala, who was killed in a friendly fire incident by fellow soldiers at the clash at the National Memorial ( http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Soldier-killed-by-friendly-fire-in-2010-clash-30205197.html ). The Yellow Shirt victim who died in the Silom incident died from an M79 Grenade fired by Red Shirt armed militants.
The around 80 Red Shirt protesters and other civilians died from military firing at them (so far all my research has found no evidence that any of these Red Shirt victims were armed militants, or so called MIB, they were all unarmed protesters).
The many court inquests so far were to the most part quite clear and explicitly stated that soldiers were responsible (such as the Channarong Ponsrila case, the Wat Pratum case, etc). A few cases were found inconclusive as the evidence against the military was not strong enough. Not a single court inquest so far proved the position of the Democrat Party and military that Red Shirt armed militants were responsible.
Based on this evidence you may want to rethink your position.
Not right in Ramadan
Absurd comments. Please argue with Hawking, not me. I put my trust in Hawking and (the late) Einstein, not you or my personal Bomoh, whom I go to humor him as much as anything else. You conflate faith and/or secular humanism with science, when CP Snow later showed they should not be conflated. As for Bedouin, all Arabians are originally Bedouin. There is no conflation. I never mentioned Yemeni, like Syed Alatas’ Hadramauti Yemeni ancestors. You conflate words you place in my mouth with your own illogic.
Not right in Ramadan
My problem with your commentary is your attitude. I am well familiar with mixed Indonesians, like former Foreign Minister Alwi Shihab and Malaysian intellectual and founder of Gerakan, Syed Alatas. You are entirely wrong. The Malays and other similar ethnic groups that often mixed with Arabs from the 17th to the 20th Century all consider themselves indigenous. Arabization is a new phenomenon, whether exhibited by the Islamic Parties in Indonesia or PAS in Malaysia, or individual indigenous individuals. Arabization is a foreign import and has nothing whatsoever to do with Indonesian or Malay Adat and, in fact, numerous Indonesians and Malays have criticized Arabization. Your are very ignorant, Islam was started by a Bedouin in Arabia, yes, but Lebanese are not Bedouin, Algerians are not Bedouin, Surinam Javanese are not Bedouin, Bangladeshis are no Bedouin. Malays do not import Sri Lankan Muslim culture, Malian Muslim culture or Lebanese Shi’a Muslim culture; they import, when done, ARAB Wahhabi culture. Your comments are not only generically ridiculous, they exhibit an ignorance of Malaysia and Indonesia. As I have said many times, I was born in Singapore in Malaya, pre-Independe, and I have spent 44 years in Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia. I knew Syed Alatas. Please do not lecture me, when you don’t even know the textbook. Mr. Smith, I am certain there is no witchcraft, I am certain that science is reality, and I am certain that you need help from a Bomoh.
The future of Australia-Indonesia relations
“Economic diplomacy needs to reassure Indonesians that developing stronger economic links is for mutual benefit.”
The problem with that statement is that it is a lie. Australia and for that matter the World’s only interest in Indonesia in trade terms is cheap labour.
Just visit Thailand and you will see that it is the “new China” when Thai’s start demanding pay rises then they will head to Indonesia.
Indonesia being a Islamic state and having governance problems has scared off Investors but that cheap cheap labour is so hard to ignore.
Not right in Ramadan
Mr. Cohen, I do not share your sense of certainty, in any field of knowledge. I believe that what we call ‘the sum of human knowledge’ amounts to almost nothing in the scale of things. In any case, I am inclined to give more weight to the viewpoint of all the sages and holy men who have been revered by mankind since the dawn of history, than I am to the opinions of a handful of white men in white coats who have been around for just two centuries.
Not right in Ramadan
In the Gulf there are a few old mercantile families who have exclusively married Indonesian and Malay women for more than a thousand years. In appearance and customs they are SE Asian, but they are also Gulf Arabs. So the connection between these two cultures is rather deeper than you suggest.
‘…a form of Islam that is Bedouin-based and has nothing to do with Southeast Asia.’ All of Islam is ‘Bedouin-based’. My problem with your commentary is that you make a number of sweeping generalisations and conflate quite separate terms like ‘Arab’ and ‘Saudi’ and ‘Bedouin’ and ‘Wahhabi’.
Not right in Ramadan
I have no special need to contact the Indonesian Government Press Office. I will be convinced of my error if you could kindly quote any media report to the effect that the Saudi ambassador was asked to leave. The Aljazeera report of 23 June 2011, one among several I have read, refers merely to the recall of the Indonesian ambassador. A CNN report of about the same date mentions Marty Natalegawa’s calling in the Saudi ambassador to hand over a letter of protest to him.
Red and Yellow in Germany
Thank you Khun N-Nostitz for making the googling effort. I too googled and got the same inconclusive results as to which camp(s) were directly responsible, and in what proportion, to the 90 dead and some 2,000 injured and maimed during the bloody Red Shirts protests in year 2010.
But I leave you Khun N-Nostitz with an HRW report ‘Truth and Reconciliation’ excerpt I encountered while I googled:
“ On May 16, there was an uncompleted building near the Din Daeng barricade, next to a tall hotel. I saw two young boys wearing motorcycle helmets come to the front [of the fighting], and told them to go away because it was too dangerous, but they didn’t listen to me. There were some leaders of the barricades and they went to talk to the boys. Then I saw the boys helping to prepare the petrol bombs. Then the smallest of the boys, he looked about nine or ten, he came forward carrying a bunch of petrol bombs and he talked to one of the leaders. Then the smallest boy ran towards the uncompleted building in front of the barricade, hiding in the bushes as he went. I tried to follow him but I was too big to get in there. I lost sight of him, but an hour later there was a fire on the 10th floor of the building. He had walked all the way over there, then up, and started the fire. He then came back the same way and the same Red Shirt guy gave him a few hundred baht [worth a few US dollars]. I asked the boy why he had done this, and he said, laughing, ‘That’s my job, my job.’” – HRW interview with photojournalist Masaro Goto, Bangkok, June 11, 2010
Vietnamese fishermen versus China
Nguoi Phan Bien,
You are right that until recently Vietnam, The Philippines, etc. treated territorial disputes between each other in terms of “might is right”. Now that China has trumped them at that game, they have, of course, changed strategy and will appeal to international law. International law enables small powers to unite in disputes with large ones, just as laws within a country can enable citizens to unite against a lawless central power and form their own lawful government. Just how effective domestic and international laws are, is a matter of politics and geopolitics. My assessment of the South China Sea dispute is that it is a testing ground of international law as a defence against imperialism. (Imperialism on the international scale being equivalent to absolutism within a country). The small powers may emerge with overwhelming world support. The outcome is not clear, just as the rule of law within a particular country may or may not (as in the case of Thailand) have developed into an adequate defence against absolutism. It is a mistake at this stage to back imperialism against international law, because the outcome is yet to be decided. It is also an indication of cynicism.
A victory for International law in the South China Sea could be the cause celèbre that unites all of the world’s small powers against imperialism, whether it be American, Chinese, Russian, British (English?), or European.
Conflict in the South China Sea between China and the United States would probably end in a sad victory for one or other brand of imperialism.