I watched the final minutes live with Jatuporn and Nattawut then Jatuporn again
the supporters and other leaders around them were very nervous and kept trying to move them away but both of them kept speaking to the people
I havent seen the part where Nattawut sat down and kept talking while the minders tried to shield him
and if I remember correctly Jatuporn was the last on stage standing by himself and saying his last few words
some time previous Jatuporn was on stage and a bullet smashed the microphone he was using, I saw the incident, it put him off his speech for about 30 seconds then he got another mike and kept speaking
maybe the day before a woman (name?) standing behind the stage that was shot dead through the forehead, wasnt clear to me if it was specifically aimed or missed someone on stage at the time
Now Jim do you remember 92 when Chamlong sat on the ground amongst his supporters and they covered him with their own bodies to stop the soldiers shooting him? Did Chamlong tell those supporters I’m going to hand myself over to some MPs who will escort me to senior police officers to arrange my arrest in order that the army doesn’t shoot me? Or did he stay with his supporters?
To turn Jatuporn, or the others, into heroes after they deserted all those old people they had gathered in front of the stage is just pure propaganda. Is Veera a hero Jim? He left a few days before. What about Arisman? He wasn’t going to hang around with the red shirt guards and get shot like them. To turn cowards into heroes is wrong no matter what political idea you want push.
This is the job of the police, the riot police, period!
Obviously everybody realized long before the end that the police were not going to do their job. If they had then the army would not have been needed.
To be fair they were also unable to do their job when the PAD was at the airport and were chased away by the yellow shirt security guards. This year there was a feeling it was more than fear that let them down. It could have been, like the UDD leaders said, that the lower level policemen had red shirt sympathies or it could be, like I suspect some in the government feel, that a layer of middle to high ranking policemen are very sympathetic to Thaksin or are even on his payroll.
I have no proof either way, but have to admit I haven’t seen much to convince me that either the average Thai policeman would put his job on the line for political sympathies or had much sympathy for the public at all. On the other hand that senior and middle ranking Thai police officers are quite mercenary I have no doubts.
suspect there are a lot of Thais of his age group and relative affluence that are like him, I think more in Bangkok than outside
but there seem to be a lot of Thais that are more broadminded and concerned for the country and each other, and many more now as the redshirt message has spread and the old memories from 1970s-1990s have been revived and joined by the more generally understood 2010
so dont despair and let them move to democratic elections because if elections are seen to yield governments that are not puppets then people even like our selfish will, for valid selfish reasons, suddenly take an interest and vote for what they want
its worth saying, democracy doesnt expect or need smart or selfish or statesmen to vote, its aimed at finding what the majority want whatever their reasons and yielding a parliament and government that will work toward goals that will please the voting population next time around
secondly, my version of the elites/amart using democracy as a shield and attractor of lovely free foreign aid…
the elites/amart, now joined as full members by the military generals, use the parliament and MPs as their “S&E” (stories and excuses) department to provide them cover for whatever they feel like doing
if the S&E department performs to their satisfaction, then OK, otherwise replace them
After reading Andrew Sheng’s political economy analysis, I wonder what Malaysia leaders are thinking. China currently is the biggest surplus zone in the world, so why not utilize the Chinese in Malaysia as a comparative advantage tool to integrate with China economy to solve Malaysian economic problem. Why are Malaysian leaders still clinging on to the destructive elements of the obsolete UMNO platform and NEP agendas? “One Malaysia” and “the New Economic Model (NEM)” will move Malaysia forward, so why not embrace it?
I admire the current Indonesian leadership in having a forward vision; politically moving toward democratization, economically going for globalization, and Indonesian are learning Mandarin! Indonesian president is really laying the political economy foundation for the country to take off!
Aphisit regime is moving Thailand toward being the next “Greek.” Aphisit has been borrowing from domestic and foreign banks to pay for his populist projects with heavy corruption. For example, deputy Prime Minister Suthep was unable to answer during last week censure debate how he paid off $80 millions debt within a few months. Thailand is moving toward a NFA deficit of more than 50 percent of GDP under current regime. Politically, there is no need to mention about how messy Thailand is.
If I were Najib, I would choose Indonesian direction because in the present day global economy, no country could afford a structural political problem that is also fundamentally an economic one.
Nuomi – whatever colour flag Thais, Siamese, Lao want is their business, not mine :
I simply think they should be given the choice – not have it rammed down their throats by the “Thai” military.
And your comments on Kings Mongkut and Chulalongkorn – yes :
under the ridiculous current “Thai” LM laws, you should be careful !
Dear Maratjp, I live on Ratchaprarop and can say my own account, my own “reporting” is much different than yours.
First of all, the military did NOT tell everyone not to go out on the streets. They told us two days after the fighting started, and a resident was shot in my building after being mistaken for a “blackshirt sniper” did they make an announcement not to go outside and not to go near the balconys. They specifically stated not to smoke on balcony’s because they could not verify whether someone had a cigarrette or a gun. I do not speak Thai, but my neighbors and our online message board reported everything to the non-thai speaking residents (of which there are many).
Second, since when does “taunting” the army equate a valid reason to shoot? I witness an unarmed young man, waiting to run across the street, get shot in the chest and then die, after waiting for 45 minutes for a rescue vehicle to arrive. Was running across the street “taunting”? Was it grounds to get shot? Perhaps military protocol says yes, but my own morality says no. Being unable to help someone shot, and having to watch him die, is not something I would wish on anyone. Many people from my building were watching, crying, and feeling helpless from being unable to help, and from being stuck in the middle of a militarized zone. It wasn’t until the following day that the military posted a “life-fire zone” notice — down the street at their barricades. I dont really consider that “notifiying” the residents of the street.
Center 1 wasn’t broken into and burned down until 4 days later. In the 3 days between the event I described above and center 1 burning down, I saw many more people shot – including the now infamous photo of the 17 year old who was shot in the head, and all of those trying to help him being shot at. I saw the nation photographer shot. He was clearly wearing PRESS, including the green armband, and a helmut, and was on the other side of the street from the redshirts. How could he have been confused for a protester?
After that, an injured red-shirt protester, armed with a sling shot, ran into our apartment compound, where he was surrounded by other protesters, media, our own security guards, residents in the front garden, by our building’s spirit house…Troops moved fast down the street and came into our compound, shooting continuously. The shooting did not stop for an hour. This is a residential building. A resident was subsequently shot on the 23rd floor when he was looking out to see what was happening. There was blood all over my balcony. How can that be considered professional?
Yes, they were shooting warning shots, but they were also shooting real bullets at people trying to help injured individuals. Most of these people weren’t protesters but bystanders/neighbors/residents. I am concerned most about the complete disregard by the military of the safety of the residents of Rajaprarop. I don’t see how this is “professional”. Perhaps I am just naive, too idealist about the value and importance of individual human life …? Perhaps thinking “it could have been worse” is akin to saying “they did a good job”…but I dont agree.
BKK Lawyer # 33 – I say that, because it is what happened.
Kissinger and Gerald Ford at least acquiesed, but more likely sanctioned, both the build up to Thammasat, and the subsequent coup : which meant abandoning the conservative, highly pro-American Democrat Seni Pramoj.
Van Praagh’s book on Pramoj provides excellent coverage of this shameful mistake.
Ford was dumb, and Kissinger could n’t think much further than European-style Metternich grand Real-Politik.
Nixon knew South-east Asia, in detail, better.
But by this time there was a disasterous vacuum of American power – immediate post-Watergate, and the Vietnam withdrawal.
Re-reading the history of this time, I can not help thinking that if Nixon had not been driven from office, through his own silly mistakes, perhaps things might have turned out differently in Thailand in 1976.
Certainly Nixon listened more to the CIA, which was saying there was little or no threat from the Thai Communist Party.
It was the Thammasat massacre which hugely boosted the CPT.
Maratjp(#27): Thanks for that, but it does raise a question I think a lot of people have been wondering about, which is why some locations turned “hot,” and others didn’t. The soldiers controlled Phyathai up to the Victory Monument roundabout (according to you), but did not molest the crowd at the eastern side of the traffic circle, and even allowed them to rally on the night of the 18th, from the videos I’ve seen. Yet Soi Rangnam by various accounts was the scene of fairly lethal fire from the army over a long period of time. Anyone know why? Maybe I am missing an obvious point.
ibymac# 37 :
it has not been revolutionary communism which has transformed “Thailand” – it has been America’s revolutionary capitalism :
a far more powerful force.
I think he’s a bit of both, his role in the 1976 massacre should not be forgotten as the radio jockey for Armor radio, which is about equivalent to 89 FM radio of today, Samak might be liken by many, but his unwillingness to forgo the needed change in Thailand’s political system is something that need to be address, furthermore, his sudden death should also be investigated carefully since I heard some rumor about him being poisoned from his wife.
Maratjp – since many of your what you said just tilt in favor of the military, I just want to give a different prospective to what you said.
I also saw on video soldiers clashing with protesters and shooting protesters AFTER a grenade went off.
I just felt like there’s something wrong with this statement, from the video taken by the Japanese cameraman who got shot on the 10th April, you can clearly see that the soldiers was shooting first, amid not directly at the protester, then the grenade goes off. It this point I want to add a bit on Dr. Ball account that Col Romklao was killed by the shrapnel and not by a sharpshooter since we was among the casualties from that exact grenade attack.
As for the Wat that was shot at, I simply don’t know. But from what I have seen firsthand I would not suspect military involvement. (And remember, I am not a supporter of the current government!!)
Take a look at this video clip, the soldiers station on the BTS track have the pink stickers stick on their helmet, indicated the unite that involve on the 19th May crackdown, the voice from the cameraman suggested that there number was significant, maybe couple of platoons strong. Furthermore the camera then pan to Siam area where you can see the flame still going on which indicated that it was indeed happened in the 19th as oppose to what Mr. Suthep said. If the soldiers were present just 10 yard away from Wat Pratum, one has to wonder what they are doing there.
Other than that, I agreed with you that no one went on killing spree, but you have to admit that not all soldiers were “professional”
It is also very frightening that the world community could see this coming,but were unable or unwilling to step in to avoid this.So a bloodbath could therefore basically occur anywhere and at anytime,and we( as a world community) have not figured a way how to stop this.
I love Mr. Samak. You got to love him if you realized what he had done for Thailand during his life time. Yes, he had such a strong character, but very frank and honorable. He has very sharp mind even in his 70. This is the kind of person I would rather follow than sweet talker man who never actually get anything done.
He didn’t have much money to treat himself properly. The CP chairman funded his/his wife trip to America to get a proper treatment. He is an honorable man who wasn’t being treated right at the last moment of his life considering he was one of the leader in Thailand.
You can work hard all your life, made million of good things, but people will judge you by only one mistake.
“To what extent has Indonesia benefited from the great massacres of Chinese after Suharto’s coup and how does the Chinese Thai political and commercial elite relate to the military & Royal elite factions ?”
————
In a nutshell:
In Indonesia, the “outsider” chinese race was used to “unite” the different social classes and tribal identities behind “Indonesian nationalism” under Suharto.
In Thailand historically then we are talking about the relation between Chinese Mercantile Class and the Thai aristocracy that possibly has more similarities to the Malaysian sultanate structure than Indonesian Suharto. The royals and aristocracy doled out the rights (aka monopolies in some sense) in exchange for wealth from the chinese mercantile class. The thai aristocrats and chinese traded legitimacy of rank and wealth respectively for protection and support of army.
I had some difficulty loading the video but I was just successful after many attempts. I like Andrew’s analysis. It is true that rural people have rising expectation for the future. Poverty is less an immediate issue but political inclusion. Widening gap of wealth is also less of a problem than political, civil discrimination and unfair play. The crackdown of the red shirts and political dissidents and how the military is used as means to oppress and suppress rural poor people demonstrates clearly how much Thai society is in need of social and political reform. Power needs to be devolved to the people–not concentrated with the central government, the military and the related elements. People’s power and the political machinery which reflects it will bring about broad-based economic prosperity for Thailand. I am sure we will go along that path but it’s a matter of when and how much pain, bloodsheds and tears. In the meantime, we thanks our friends who support us along that process.
(1) or (2)
My conclusion is the unruly mob and burning Bangkok aftermath is proof of the army screw-up. The army failed the job that was not theirs in the first place.
The coupa dozen civilian deaths killed by carefully aimed sniper shots through their temples in the days before the storming of the barricades are inexcusable and not acceptable casualties. Even if there are “real terrorists” amongst the Red protesters, those civilians sniped to death by high powered rifles are unacceptable by any humane standards and certainly not acceptable as collateral damage EVEN in times of actual war and when military rules of engagement reign.
There were mentions of men in black. How come not a single man in black is shot or captured. How hard is it for those snipers (they obviously can sniped woman cowering low on the ground accurately through her temple) to snipe those men in black when those men in black were setting up the grenade launchers in plain view just some distance away from the red protesters (see one of Nick’s earlier post for description, or read The Economist for description of men in black walking upright into where the red protesters were sitting down and then firing at the army)?
If I do not want to believe in “conspiracy theories”, the only other reason left is army is incompetent.
the government setup so call “2.4 officers” to do information war this people will go to websites in Thailand and others international Websites for post information as support The government.
the “2.4 officers” no care how many Thai poeple as their same nation die as felling.
the 2.4 officers will say what Apisit say,will say what government say and always not forget to Accuse Thaksin when they post message very time.
2.4 try make people in thialand agree that army use M16 with the protesters is right and the government blocked tv and many websites many medias is right.
2.4 got piad from government then shut down computer and go to bed each day
they no care how many thai people has die.
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Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
Jim thanks for the links
I watched the final minutes live with Jatuporn and Nattawut then Jatuporn again
the supporters and other leaders around them were very nervous and kept trying to move them away but both of them kept speaking to the people
I havent seen the part where Nattawut sat down and kept talking while the minders tried to shield him
and if I remember correctly Jatuporn was the last on stage standing by himself and saying his last few words
some time previous Jatuporn was on stage and a bullet smashed the microphone he was using, I saw the incident, it put him off his speech for about 30 seconds then he got another mike and kept speaking
maybe the day before a woman (name?) standing behind the stage that was shot dead through the forehead, wasnt clear to me if it was specifically aimed or missed someone on stage at the time
the redshirts are not cowards!
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
Jim Taylor? – 39
To me this is heart rending stuff.
Now Jim do you remember 92 when Chamlong sat on the ground amongst his supporters and they covered him with their own bodies to stop the soldiers shooting him? Did Chamlong tell those supporters I’m going to hand myself over to some MPs who will escort me to senior police officers to arrange my arrest in order that the army doesn’t shoot me? Or did he stay with his supporters?
To turn Jatuporn, or the others, into heroes after they deserted all those old people they had gathered in front of the stage is just pure propaganda. Is Veera a hero Jim? He left a few days before. What about Arisman? He wasn’t going to hang around with the red shirt guards and get shot like them. To turn cowards into heroes is wrong no matter what political idea you want push.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
Nuomi – 33
This is the job of the police, the riot police, period!
Obviously everybody realized long before the end that the police were not going to do their job. If they had then the army would not have been needed.
To be fair they were also unable to do their job when the PAD was at the airport and were chased away by the yellow shirt security guards. This year there was a feeling it was more than fear that let them down. It could have been, like the UDD leaders said, that the lower level policemen had red shirt sympathies or it could be, like I suspect some in the government feel, that a layer of middle to high ranking policemen are very sympathetic to Thaksin or are even on his payroll.
I have no proof either way, but have to admit I haven’t seen much to convince me that either the average Thai policeman would put his job on the line for political sympathies or had much sympathy for the public at all. On the other hand that senior and middle ranking Thai police officers are quite mercenary I have no doubts.
Thailand’s full-blown crisis of legitimacy
firstly, JohnH, the youngish selfish guy…
suspect there are a lot of Thais of his age group and relative affluence that are like him, I think more in Bangkok than outside
but there seem to be a lot of Thais that are more broadminded and concerned for the country and each other, and many more now as the redshirt message has spread and the old memories from 1970s-1990s have been revived and joined by the more generally understood 2010
so dont despair and let them move to democratic elections because if elections are seen to yield governments that are not puppets then people even like our selfish will, for valid selfish reasons, suddenly take an interest and vote for what they want
its worth saying, democracy doesnt expect or need smart or selfish or statesmen to vote, its aimed at finding what the majority want whatever their reasons and yielding a parliament and government that will work toward goals that will please the voting population next time around
secondly, my version of the elites/amart using democracy as a shield and attractor of lovely free foreign aid…
the elites/amart, now joined as full members by the military generals, use the parliament and MPs as their “S&E” (stories and excuses) department to provide them cover for whatever they feel like doing
if the S&E department performs to their satisfaction, then OK, otherwise replace them
Najib – coming up to the half way mark of 2010
Hello Greg,
After reading Andrew Sheng’s political economy analysis, I wonder what Malaysia leaders are thinking. China currently is the biggest surplus zone in the world, so why not utilize the Chinese in Malaysia as a comparative advantage tool to integrate with China economy to solve Malaysian economic problem. Why are Malaysian leaders still clinging on to the destructive elements of the obsolete UMNO platform and NEP agendas? “One Malaysia” and “the New Economic Model (NEM)” will move Malaysia forward, so why not embrace it?
I admire the current Indonesian leadership in having a forward vision; politically moving toward democratization, economically going for globalization, and Indonesian are learning Mandarin! Indonesian president is really laying the political economy foundation for the country to take off!
Aphisit regime is moving Thailand toward being the next “Greek.” Aphisit has been borrowing from domestic and foreign banks to pay for his populist projects with heavy corruption. For example, deputy Prime Minister Suthep was unable to answer during last week censure debate how he paid off $80 millions debt within a few months. Thailand is moving toward a NFA deficit of more than 50 percent of GDP under current regime. Politically, there is no need to mention about how messy Thailand is.
If I were Najib, I would choose Indonesian direction because in the present day global economy, no country could afford a structural political problem that is also fundamentally an economic one.
Thailand’s full-blown crisis of legitimacy
Nuomi – whatever colour flag Thais, Siamese, Lao want is their business, not mine :
I simply think they should be given the choice – not have it rammed down their throats by the “Thai” military.
And your comments on Kings Mongkut and Chulalongkorn – yes :
under the ridiculous current “Thai” LM laws, you should be careful !
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
Nganadeelap #30: try this link:
“1 р╣Бр╕Бр╕Щр╕Щр╕│р╕Ыр╕гр╕░р╕Бр╕▓р╕ир╕бр╕нр╕Ър╕Хр╕▒р╕з19-5-2010 mpeg1.mpg ”
Last speech by Jatuporn as cited in my blog #22. To me this is heart rending stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwejD5RrlI8&feature=player_embedded
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
Dear Maratjp, I live on Ratchaprarop and can say my own account, my own “reporting” is much different than yours.
First of all, the military did NOT tell everyone not to go out on the streets. They told us two days after the fighting started, and a resident was shot in my building after being mistaken for a “blackshirt sniper” did they make an announcement not to go outside and not to go near the balconys. They specifically stated not to smoke on balcony’s because they could not verify whether someone had a cigarrette or a gun. I do not speak Thai, but my neighbors and our online message board reported everything to the non-thai speaking residents (of which there are many).
Second, since when does “taunting” the army equate a valid reason to shoot? I witness an unarmed young man, waiting to run across the street, get shot in the chest and then die, after waiting for 45 minutes for a rescue vehicle to arrive. Was running across the street “taunting”? Was it grounds to get shot? Perhaps military protocol says yes, but my own morality says no. Being unable to help someone shot, and having to watch him die, is not something I would wish on anyone. Many people from my building were watching, crying, and feeling helpless from being unable to help, and from being stuck in the middle of a militarized zone. It wasn’t until the following day that the military posted a “life-fire zone” notice — down the street at their barricades. I dont really consider that “notifiying” the residents of the street.
Center 1 wasn’t broken into and burned down until 4 days later. In the 3 days between the event I described above and center 1 burning down, I saw many more people shot – including the now infamous photo of the 17 year old who was shot in the head, and all of those trying to help him being shot at. I saw the nation photographer shot. He was clearly wearing PRESS, including the green armband, and a helmut, and was on the other side of the street from the redshirts. How could he have been confused for a protester?
After that, an injured red-shirt protester, armed with a sling shot, ran into our apartment compound, where he was surrounded by other protesters, media, our own security guards, residents in the front garden, by our building’s spirit house…Troops moved fast down the street and came into our compound, shooting continuously. The shooting did not stop for an hour. This is a residential building. A resident was subsequently shot on the 23rd floor when he was looking out to see what was happening. There was blood all over my balcony. How can that be considered professional?
Yes, they were shooting warning shots, but they were also shooting real bullets at people trying to help injured individuals. Most of these people weren’t protesters but bystanders/neighbors/residents. I am concerned most about the complete disregard by the military of the safety of the residents of Rajaprarop. I don’t see how this is “professional”. Perhaps I am just naive, too idealist about the value and importance of individual human life …? Perhaps thinking “it could have been worse” is akin to saying “they did a good job”…but I dont agree.
Sondhi – return parliamentary powers to the king
BKK Lawyer # 33 – I say that, because it is what happened.
Kissinger and Gerald Ford at least acquiesed, but more likely sanctioned, both the build up to Thammasat, and the subsequent coup : which meant abandoning the conservative, highly pro-American Democrat Seni Pramoj.
Van Praagh’s book on Pramoj provides excellent coverage of this shameful mistake.
Ford was dumb, and Kissinger could n’t think much further than European-style Metternich grand Real-Politik.
Nixon knew South-east Asia, in detail, better.
But by this time there was a disasterous vacuum of American power – immediate post-Watergate, and the Vietnam withdrawal.
Re-reading the history of this time, I can not help thinking that if Nixon had not been driven from office, through his own silly mistakes, perhaps things might have turned out differently in Thailand in 1976.
Certainly Nixon listened more to the CIA, which was saying there was little or no threat from the Thai Communist Party.
It was the Thammasat massacre which hugely boosted the CPT.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
Maratjp(#27): Thanks for that, but it does raise a question I think a lot of people have been wondering about, which is why some locations turned “hot,” and others didn’t. The soldiers controlled Phyathai up to the Victory Monument roundabout (according to you), but did not molest the crowd at the eastern side of the traffic circle, and even allowed them to rally on the night of the 18th, from the videos I’ve seen. Yet Soi Rangnam by various accounts was the scene of fairly lethal fire from the army over a long period of time. Anyone know why? Maybe I am missing an obvious point.
Sondhi – return parliamentary powers to the king
ibymac# 37 :
it has not been revolutionary communism which has transformed “Thailand” – it has been America’s revolutionary capitalism :
a far more powerful force.
Hero or villain? The life of Samak
I think he’s a bit of both, his role in the 1976 massacre should not be forgotten as the radio jockey for Armor radio, which is about equivalent to 89 FM radio of today, Samak might be liken by many, but his unwillingness to forgo the needed change in Thailand’s political system is something that need to be address, furthermore, his sudden death should also be investigated carefully since I heard some rumor about him being poisoned from his wife.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
Maratjp – since many of your what you said just tilt in favor of the military, I just want to give a different prospective to what you said.
I also saw on video soldiers clashing with protesters and shooting protesters AFTER a grenade went off.
I just felt like there’s something wrong with this statement, from the video taken by the Japanese cameraman who got shot on the 10th April, you can clearly see that the soldiers was shooting first, amid not directly at the protester, then the grenade goes off. It this point I want to add a bit on Dr. Ball account that Col Romklao was killed by the shrapnel and not by a sharpshooter since we was among the casualties from that exact grenade attack.
As for the Wat that was shot at, I simply don’t know. But from what I have seen firsthand I would not suspect military involvement. (And remember, I am not a supporter of the current government!!)
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=131049140240806&ref=mf
Take a look at this video clip, the soldiers station on the BTS track have the pink stickers stick on their helmet, indicated the unite that involve on the 19th May crackdown, the voice from the cameraman suggested that there number was significant, maybe couple of platoons strong. Furthermore the camera then pan to Siam area where you can see the flame still going on which indicated that it was indeed happened in the 19th as oppose to what Mr. Suthep said. If the soldiers were present just 10 yard away from Wat Pratum, one has to wonder what they are doing there.
Other than that, I agreed with you that no one went on killing spree, but you have to admit that not all soldiers were “professional”
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=131049140240806&ref=mf
Furthermore, I still dont see any evidence of the supposedly ronin sharpshooter, but well, I’ve seen many evidence of the military’s sharpshooter, who actually pull the trigger too.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=114093355299635&ref=mf
Since, there are many link I guess it might got filtered.
Thailand’s reddest and bloodiest month
It is also very frightening that the world community could see this coming,but were unable or unwilling to step in to avoid this.So a bloodbath could therefore basically occur anywhere and at anytime,and we( as a world community) have not figured a way how to stop this.
Nick Nostitz in the killing zone (re-post)
PM Abhisit LIE all People in the world!!!!!!!
He Block every Website that Show the truth!!!!
Hero or villain? The life of Samak
I love Mr. Samak. You got to love him if you realized what he had done for Thailand during his life time. Yes, he had such a strong character, but very frank and honorable. He has very sharp mind even in his 70. This is the kind of person I would rather follow than sweet talker man who never actually get anything done.
He didn’t have much money to treat himself properly. The CP chairman funded his/his wife trip to America to get a proper treatment. He is an honorable man who wasn’t being treated right at the last moment of his life considering he was one of the leader in Thailand.
You can work hard all your life, made million of good things, but people will judge you by only one mistake.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
“To what extent has Indonesia benefited from the great massacres of Chinese after Suharto’s coup and how does the Chinese Thai political and commercial elite relate to the military & Royal elite factions ?”
————
In a nutshell:
In Indonesia, the “outsider” chinese race was used to “unite” the different social classes and tribal identities behind “Indonesian nationalism” under Suharto.
In Thailand historically then we are talking about the relation between Chinese Mercantile Class and the Thai aristocracy that possibly has more similarities to the Malaysian sultanate structure than Indonesian Suharto. The royals and aristocracy doled out the rights (aka monopolies in some sense) in exchange for wealth from the chinese mercantile class. The thai aristocrats and chinese traded legitimacy of rank and wealth respectively for protection and support of army.
Thailand in crisis – ANU video series
I had some difficulty loading the video but I was just successful after many attempts. I like Andrew’s analysis. It is true that rural people have rising expectation for the future. Poverty is less an immediate issue but political inclusion. Widening gap of wealth is also less of a problem than political, civil discrimination and unfair play. The crackdown of the red shirts and political dissidents and how the military is used as means to oppress and suppress rural poor people demonstrates clearly how much Thai society is in need of social and political reform. Power needs to be devolved to the people–not concentrated with the central government, the military and the related elements. People’s power and the political machinery which reflects it will bring about broad-based economic prosperity for Thailand. I am sure we will go along that path but it’s a matter of when and how much pain, bloodsheds and tears. In the meantime, we thanks our friends who support us along that process.
Thailand in crisis – Episode 2
Sorry, I forgot to conclude my either – or.
(1) or (2)
My conclusion is the unruly mob and burning Bangkok aftermath is proof of the army screw-up. The army failed the job that was not theirs in the first place.
The coupa dozen civilian deaths killed by carefully aimed sniper shots through their temples in the days before the storming of the barricades are inexcusable and not acceptable casualties. Even if there are “real terrorists” amongst the Red protesters, those civilians sniped to death by high powered rifles are unacceptable by any humane standards and certainly not acceptable as collateral damage EVEN in times of actual war and when military rules of engagement reign.
There were mentions of men in black. How come not a single man in black is shot or captured. How hard is it for those snipers (they obviously can sniped woman cowering low on the ground accurately through her temple) to snipe those men in black when those men in black were setting up the grenade launchers in plain view just some distance away from the red protesters (see one of Nick’s earlier post for description, or read The Economist for description of men in black walking upright into where the red protesters were sitting down and then firing at the army)?
If I do not want to believe in “conspiracy theories”, the only other reason left is army is incompetent.
Thailand in crisis – ANU video series
I am not good English but I like to tell you that
the government setup so call “2.4 officers” to do information war this people will go to websites in Thailand and others international Websites for post information as support The government.
the “2.4 officers” no care how many Thai poeple as their same nation die as felling.
the 2.4 officers will say what Apisit say,will say what government say and always not forget to Accuse Thaksin when they post message very time.
2.4 try make people in thialand agree that army use M16 with the protesters is right and the government blocked tv and many websites many medias is right.
2.4 got piad from government then shut down computer and go to bed each day
they no care how many thai people has die.