Mr Steve, you are good to get statistics – you do not know inside our feelings. You do not know poverty. I do not know the best words, but I know my Grandmother kill our pumpkin, because we cannot wait for the fruit. She chop off the fruit bearing parts to sell in the market for B5 per bunch.
In your world B60 is next to nothing.
Or are you not Mr Steve? Are you a general with hundreds of million Bahts, where do you get all that from?
Do you know what it is like if you do not go to the temple in your village and chant for the king? Maybe you do know Mr Steve, maybe you understand oppression…. If not you, I can tell you some do understand oppression VERY WELL in our society.
It is so hard to explain how this feeling – we MUST obey.
Excellent response from Thai govt to sensationalist article.
Since 13 Oct, the nation have been wearing black, white, blue, grey… nearby local homes, locals wearing whatever color they want.
As for mourners who wish to purchase black color polos or t-shirt, they can do @60-150 baht at any market/street vendors area.
Having lived in Thailand until very recently I confirm:
1) The junta is totally opposed to democracy.
2) The poor have suffered greatly because many of their number are self employed and the downturn in tourism is nothing short of disastrous to small operators, it should be noted that the government may be able to produce figures that, in their view, disagree with this. However it must be taken into account that Thai government figures of arrivals show a large number coming from China who ride Chinese owned buses, eat in Chinese restaurants, are taken only to specialty shops and stay in hotels that are not owned by lower ranking Thais, the Thai people are suffering greatly because it is only the junta who are directly benefiting and there is simply no trickle down effect in Thailand.
Of greater concern is that Junta, in being consistent supports , condones and encourages violence and law breaking in countries outside of Thailand in their vicious nasty hunting down of Lese Majeste suspects. This latter activity is seldom practiced by even North Korea and only draws attention to the ridiculous state of affairs in Bangkok. Anyone who knows Thailand well knows that the letter above is pure propaganda
Opini? daripada anda nanya opini orang lain mending itu poin” yang disebutkan coba kasih sumbernya darimana, saya lihat banyak yang menurut saya cuma berita burung
No. Ian just want to show that Ahok’s (and ahok’s supporter) arrogance doesn’t pay.
Ahok (and Jokowi) once visited and promised to people at Bukit Duri and Kampung Pulo not to evict them, and agreed to their proposal of Kampung Deret which allow those people to remain there. People there were happy & gave their vote to Jokowi and Ahok despite the sectarian issue at the time.
Now Ahok has broken his promise, and offered no dialogue nor any apology. And the supporters of Ahok, the awful urban middle class, vilify them constantly in social media when these evicted people try to remind ahok of his promise of dialogue and participatory development. How come these evicted don’t find sectarian groups are attractive enough to vent their anger towards ahok?
Pada dasarnya, Ian Wilson sudah menjabarkan bahwa rakyat kecil telah menyimpan dendam akibat program pembersihan sungai dan tata kelola kota lainnya yang lebih memihak kaum urban. Catatan: rakyat miskin di Jakarta hanya 6% dari total jumlah penduduk. Karena mereka tergusur dan kebutuhan primernya (rumah) tidak terakomodasi, tidak semua tertampung di rusun, api kemarahan sudah tersulut. Kesalahan Ahok pada kasus penistaan menambah bara api. Pihak yang ingin mengambil keuntungan untuk menjegal pemerintahan telah melakukan aksinya, atas nama ‘agama’ dan ‘solidaritas’. Tidak bisa dibendung lagi (meskipun partai yang notabene pro rakyat, organisasi keagamaan lainnya sudah berusaha menghimbau). Semoga hari ini damai. Hope the enemies among friends would show their faces sooner or later.
Thailand did well under PM Thaksin. Of course there was corruption and self-promotion then, but Thais had choices, and they chose TRT. Now, incompetent, corrupt, self promoting elitist leaders are not answerable to the people. It is these elitist leaders that require rehabilitation, not Thaksin.
Donald Trump is truly a self-promoting buffoon, but his support base goes well beyond “gun-toting, fundamentalist Christians in Oklahoma.” Many
votes for him will come from folks disgusted with the prospect of the profoundly corrupt Clintons back in the White House.
One would have thought that the only Indonesian politician who talks more than Ahok is Ruhut Sitompul, so it is only fitting that this weird character should be Ahok’s campaign manager.
There is additional spice in this dish, given the accusation, reportedly contained in some intelligence assessment or other, that SBY is surreptitiously backing tomorrow’s demonstrations. At least Australia has not been fingered as the source. SBY’s son and Jakarta gubernatorial candidate Agus Harimurti has denounced the accusation as a ‘cruel slander’. He would have been closer to the mark if he had called it ‘utter rubbish’.
Ruhut Sitompul was long the Democrats’ leading blowhard. He seemed to have an opinion on anything and everything. It would be easier to believe that it was Ruhut who was backing the protest, rather than the former president. But that might have been too much even for him.
As Yanks are wont, “Well, I’ll be damned!. All those all you can eat iPAD’s (made of just about skate labour in Foxconn Concentration camps of course, oh, in China) and Pepsi soda!
The Ed Barneys’ ever enduring “Promotin of Democracy” con line must have a sell by date. Good job total control of “media” and all those self important “academics” in all fancy universities and self righteous “activists” make sure that the same con line can be used again and again and again in Guatemala where there was not even a single communist before the brothers Dulles destroyed it and a bout a hundred countries since.
For sure English speaker worshipping, White people kowtowing (just being Asian) Hollywood worshipping Burmese may be at low point to con before the game is up, especially with their current immmense hatred for so-called previous military leaders and the Chinese, but the spanned in the works could still be that “country like no other”.
Facts on the ground is Yanks or West or anyone better harry up . As people are now on 6 month notice on their pin up cultivated girl Aung San Sun Kyi whose shine is rapidly going off. Unless irreversible interbationally obligated contracts are singed during that time, that fake- what was it ” water infrastructure” – balloney may not magic for long.
In short Trump would be literally groping AGAIN for his political comeback after a resounding defeat, if the polls are accurate this November presidential election.
But could Thaksin get his royal pardon after all when the royal succession is done?
I have never heard of a political party called ‘Purba’. Are you perhaps thinking of Murba? It had a lot of prominent former pemuda in its ranks and, according to Anderson and McVey, could infuriate the PKI more than any other party.
Let’s put a “Bob” (old Aussie equivalent of 10 cents: I think) each way just to make sure: no winners and no losers…..but Chris intuitively and based on my “insider contacts” I think Michael is correct!
Very good example of reasons for demonstrations and the most valid one i.e. losing their former ‘warga negara kelas satu’ position and becomes like everyone else. A hard pill to swallow but that is democracy. If Ahok had been governor of Manado or Medan, the result would have been the similar, only the ‘first class citizen’ would be different.
However the people with these valid arguments (valid because they want their first class status back – doesn’t everyone?) is dwarfed by the people who are bigots, racists and traitors to the founding founders of this nation, and people paid by the elites to shake Ahok and the Jokowi govt.
4 november is a moslem movement to #ReclaimJakarta from the Gank of Taipan Corrupt Developer Idol (Ahok) to Jail, it’s a peace movement to rethinking of “equality before the law” in Indonesia
to ian wilson, think you need more study to understanding indonesia politics
The argument resonates with many in the left in the Western world, that left-wing parties like PDI-P and the the Democrats in the US have neglect the interest of the poor and marginalized to the forces of capitalism and globalization, and now you are seeing a right wing backlash.
But when was the PDI-P really a left wing party. The author forgets that the PDI (PDi-P) was a New Order creation – Sukarno’s PNI, Indonesian Christian Party, Indonesian Catholic Party and Purba. Only Purba, the smallest of the parties, had socialist leanings. Indonesian parties even before 1965 have been about religion more than economics, much like Europe of the early 20th century and late 19th century (outside of the UK). 35% of PDI-P legislator are non-Muslim, if you add in Muslim women, Muslim men are in the minority in the PDi-P.
Secondly, there have been a couple of articles about the evictions. in New Mandala, most of them highly critical. Like this article none of them offer viable solutions that won’t be expensive or solve the flooding issues. The article seems to skirt around the problem, is that politicians in Indonesia like Ahok are just doing what the voters want, which in his case means people with a Jakarta ID. Everyone with a Jakarta ID that has been evicted has been granted a Rusun, means about 30-50% of the people evicted won’t be getting anything. That is the crux of the problem, does offer to abolish the system, and grant every Javanese villager who moves to Jakarta settle on a river bank to get a low rent apartment in a couple of year’s time.
What does New Mandala suggest. Well I know. The typical New Mandala solution will be the following 1) Create a committee 2) Hire some Australian consultants preferably the author and his some of his buddies 3) Have said individuals write a Report 4) Have consultations with stakeholders 5) Have meeting present the report 6) File the report 7) Forget about the problem.
Lastly, if Ahok wasn’t the Governor and a guy like Boy Sadikin was the governor, and did exactly what Ahok did, would FPI be protesting? No.
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Thai government responds to New Mandala article
Mr Steve, you are good to get statistics – you do not know inside our feelings. You do not know poverty. I do not know the best words, but I know my Grandmother kill our pumpkin, because we cannot wait for the fruit. She chop off the fruit bearing parts to sell in the market for B5 per bunch.
In your world B60 is next to nothing.
Or are you not Mr Steve? Are you a general with hundreds of million Bahts, where do you get all that from?
Do you know what it is like if you do not go to the temple in your village and chant for the king? Maybe you do know Mr Steve, maybe you understand oppression…. If not you, I can tell you some do understand oppression VERY WELL in our society.
It is so hard to explain how this feeling – we MUST obey.
Thai government responds to New Mandala article
Excellent response from Thai govt to sensationalist article.
Since 13 Oct, the nation have been wearing black, white, blue, grey… nearby local homes, locals wearing whatever color they want.
As for mourners who wish to purchase black color polos or t-shirt, they can do @60-150 baht at any market/street vendors area.
Thai government responds to New Mandala article
Having lived in Thailand until very recently I confirm:
1) The junta is totally opposed to democracy.
2) The poor have suffered greatly because many of their number are self employed and the downturn in tourism is nothing short of disastrous to small operators, it should be noted that the government may be able to produce figures that, in their view, disagree with this. However it must be taken into account that Thai government figures of arrivals show a large number coming from China who ride Chinese owned buses, eat in Chinese restaurants, are taken only to specialty shops and stay in hotels that are not owned by lower ranking Thais, the Thai people are suffering greatly because it is only the junta who are directly benefiting and there is simply no trickle down effect in Thailand.
Of greater concern is that Junta, in being consistent supports , condones and encourages violence and law breaking in countries outside of Thailand in their vicious nasty hunting down of Lese Majeste suspects. This latter activity is seldom practiced by even North Korea and only draws attention to the ridiculous state of affairs in Bangkok. Anyone who knows Thailand well knows that the letter above is pure propaganda
Thai government responds to New Mandala article
Dear Mr Taylor, I think they will ban you in Thailand now, The man that write to you is VERY dangerous.
Thai government responds to New Mandala article
Again this Thai junta under the absolute monarchy dictatorship is doing their routin thing, lying.
Making enemies out of friends
Opini? daripada anda nanya opini orang lain mending itu poin” yang disebutkan coba kasih sumbernya darimana, saya lihat banyak yang menurut saya cuma berita burung
Making enemies out of friends
Artinya”Kafir” apa? sama dengan Kristen?
Making enemies out of friends
No. Ian just want to show that Ahok’s (and ahok’s supporter) arrogance doesn’t pay.
Ahok (and Jokowi) once visited and promised to people at Bukit Duri and Kampung Pulo not to evict them, and agreed to their proposal of Kampung Deret which allow those people to remain there. People there were happy & gave their vote to Jokowi and Ahok despite the sectarian issue at the time.
Now Ahok has broken his promise, and offered no dialogue nor any apology. And the supporters of Ahok, the awful urban middle class, vilify them constantly in social media when these evicted people try to remind ahok of his promise of dialogue and participatory development. How come these evicted don’t find sectarian groups are attractive enough to vent their anger towards ahok?
Making enemies out of friends
Pada dasarnya, Ian Wilson sudah menjabarkan bahwa rakyat kecil telah menyimpan dendam akibat program pembersihan sungai dan tata kelola kota lainnya yang lebih memihak kaum urban. Catatan: rakyat miskin di Jakarta hanya 6% dari total jumlah penduduk. Karena mereka tergusur dan kebutuhan primernya (rumah) tidak terakomodasi, tidak semua tertampung di rusun, api kemarahan sudah tersulut. Kesalahan Ahok pada kasus penistaan menambah bara api. Pihak yang ingin mengambil keuntungan untuk menjegal pemerintahan telah melakukan aksinya, atas nama ‘agama’ dan ‘solidaritas’. Tidak bisa dibendung lagi (meskipun partai yang notabene pro rakyat, organisasi keagamaan lainnya sudah berusaha menghimbau). Semoga hari ini damai. Hope the enemies among friends would show their faces sooner or later.
Making enemies out of friends
Have you read this good article? The article founds that the the so called “humane-relocation” has uprooted the evicted from their daily livelihood.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2016/04/20/poverty-alienation-haunt-rusunawa.html
Second acts for Thaksin and Trump?
Thailand did well under PM Thaksin. Of course there was corruption and self-promotion then, but Thais had choices, and they chose TRT. Now, incompetent, corrupt, self promoting elitist leaders are not answerable to the people. It is these elitist leaders that require rehabilitation, not Thaksin.
Donald Trump is truly a self-promoting buffoon, but his support base goes well beyond “gun-toting, fundamentalist Christians in Oklahoma.” Many
votes for him will come from folks disgusted with the prospect of the profoundly corrupt Clintons back in the White House.
Thailand’s peculiar interregnum
Does anyone know definition for the Thai word “Amaat”?
Making enemies out of friends
One would have thought that the only Indonesian politician who talks more than Ahok is Ruhut Sitompul, so it is only fitting that this weird character should be Ahok’s campaign manager.
There is additional spice in this dish, given the accusation, reportedly contained in some intelligence assessment or other, that SBY is surreptitiously backing tomorrow’s demonstrations. At least Australia has not been fingered as the source. SBY’s son and Jakarta gubernatorial candidate Agus Harimurti has denounced the accusation as a ‘cruel slander’. He would have been closer to the mark if he had called it ‘utter rubbish’.
Ruhut Sitompul was long the Democrats’ leading blowhard. He seemed to have an opinion on anything and everything. It would be easier to believe that it was Ruhut who was backing the protest, rather than the former president. But that might have been too much even for him.
Washington’s untapped influence in Myanmar
iPhone and a Pepsi Soda!
As Yanks are wont, “Well, I’ll be damned!. All those all you can eat iPAD’s (made of just about skate labour in Foxconn Concentration camps of course, oh, in China) and Pepsi soda!
The Ed Barneys’ ever enduring “Promotin of Democracy” con line must have a sell by date. Good job total control of “media” and all those self important “academics” in all fancy universities and self righteous “activists” make sure that the same con line can be used again and again and again in Guatemala where there was not even a single communist before the brothers Dulles destroyed it and a bout a hundred countries since.
For sure English speaker worshipping, White people kowtowing (just being Asian) Hollywood worshipping Burmese may be at low point to con before the game is up, especially with their current immmense hatred for so-called previous military leaders and the Chinese, but the spanned in the works could still be that “country like no other”.
Facts on the ground is Yanks or West or anyone better harry up . As people are now on 6 month notice on their pin up cultivated girl Aung San Sun Kyi whose shine is rapidly going off. Unless irreversible interbationally obligated contracts are singed during that time, that fake- what was it ” water infrastructure” – balloney may not magic for long.
Second acts for Thaksin and Trump?
In short Trump would be literally groping AGAIN for his political comeback after a resounding defeat, if the polls are accurate this November presidential election.
But could Thaksin get his royal pardon after all when the royal succession is done?
Making enemies out of friends
I have never heard of a political party called ‘Purba’. Are you perhaps thinking of Murba? It had a lot of prominent former pemuda in its ranks and, according to Anderson and McVey, could infuriate the PKI more than any other party.
Thailand’s peculiar interregnum
Let’s put a “Bob” (old Aussie equivalent of 10 cents: I think) each way just to make sure: no winners and no losers…..but Chris intuitively and based on my “insider contacts” I think Michael is correct!
Making enemies out of friends
Very good example of reasons for demonstrations and the most valid one i.e. losing their former ‘warga negara kelas satu’ position and becomes like everyone else. A hard pill to swallow but that is democracy. If Ahok had been governor of Manado or Medan, the result would have been the similar, only the ‘first class citizen’ would be different.
However the people with these valid arguments (valid because they want their first class status back – doesn’t everyone?) is dwarfed by the people who are bigots, racists and traitors to the founding founders of this nation, and people paid by the elites to shake Ahok and the Jokowi govt.
Making enemies out of friends
4 november is a moslem movement to #ReclaimJakarta from the Gank of Taipan Corrupt Developer Idol (Ahok) to Jail, it’s a peace movement to rethinking of “equality before the law” in Indonesia
to ian wilson, think you need more study to understanding indonesia politics
Making enemies out of friends
The argument resonates with many in the left in the Western world, that left-wing parties like PDI-P and the the Democrats in the US have neglect the interest of the poor and marginalized to the forces of capitalism and globalization, and now you are seeing a right wing backlash.
But when was the PDI-P really a left wing party. The author forgets that the PDI (PDi-P) was a New Order creation – Sukarno’s PNI, Indonesian Christian Party, Indonesian Catholic Party and Purba. Only Purba, the smallest of the parties, had socialist leanings. Indonesian parties even before 1965 have been about religion more than economics, much like Europe of the early 20th century and late 19th century (outside of the UK). 35% of PDI-P legislator are non-Muslim, if you add in Muslim women, Muslim men are in the minority in the PDi-P.
Secondly, there have been a couple of articles about the evictions. in New Mandala, most of them highly critical. Like this article none of them offer viable solutions that won’t be expensive or solve the flooding issues. The article seems to skirt around the problem, is that politicians in Indonesia like Ahok are just doing what the voters want, which in his case means people with a Jakarta ID. Everyone with a Jakarta ID that has been evicted has been granted a Rusun, means about 30-50% of the people evicted won’t be getting anything. That is the crux of the problem, does offer to abolish the system, and grant every Javanese villager who moves to Jakarta settle on a river bank to get a low rent apartment in a couple of year’s time.
What does New Mandala suggest. Well I know. The typical New Mandala solution will be the following 1) Create a committee 2) Hire some Australian consultants preferably the author and his some of his buddies 3) Have said individuals write a Report 4) Have consultations with stakeholders 5) Have meeting present the report 6) File the report 7) Forget about the problem.
Lastly, if Ahok wasn’t the Governor and a guy like Boy Sadikin was the governor, and did exactly what Ahok did, would FPI be protesting? No.