Nancy a very good article dealing with real issues. The human tragedy surrounding the Rohingya is simply too appalling for words but in the haste to engage Myanmar the Rohingya are looked upon by those seeking engagement as a bit of a nuisance or anomaly. I remember 2 years ago the ADB attempted to get me to prepare a Country Safeguards Strategy for Myanmar and when I mentioned the Rohingya I was told in the “too hard” box and the priority is first to engage the government and other sectors of society including civil society organizations. I was totally pissed with this BS and did a runner although the ADB will claim I simply refused to complete the work. Keep up the good work although it must be an uphill struggle at this juncture.
I just wonder if you would care to expand on the notion of “Thais fooling themselves”.
I understand it as a gesture of condescension typical of the way white people, “farang”, on New Mandala prefer to frame their “understanding” of Thai politics but otherwise it seems fairly meaningless.
It is similar, to my way of thinking, to the way folks on NM consistently refer to ungrounded speculation as “information”.
I think the Trump presidency may have a lot to teach us about the way contemporary westerners tend to view such things as “truth”, “information” and “meaning”.
‘…Military forces to intervene in Myanmar to protect’. Rather like the ‘genocide’ in Kosovo; after two thousand Serbian casualties, $30 billion of infrastructure damage and bombing with 15000 tons of depleted uranium, it turned out to be ‘fake news’.
The Rohingya genocide – no longer a myth
Dr Habib Siddiqui
RB Article
December 11, 2016
snipped from a long article
And I am not alone when I state that the Rohingyas are victims of genocide. From the Human Rights Watch to the academic experts on genocide concur. Phil Robertson, Asia director for Humans Right Watch, wrote nearly four years ago that “the Burmese government engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing against the Rohingya that continues today”. Professor William Schabas, former President of the International Association of Genocide Scholars, went a step further and cautioned, “we’re moving into a zone where the [genocide] word can be used.”
Whatever doubt, if any, against the use of the term ‘genocide’ have to be shelved after October 9 of this year (2016) when the Myanmar security forces attacked Rohingya villages, ethnically cleansing these. According to ARNO, more than 500 innocent Rohingya civilians were killed, many hundreds of women raped, about 3,500 houses were burned down, unknown number of people arrested and involuntarily disappeared, and at least 40,000 internally displaced, in addition to systematic destruction of rice, paddy and food products. About 10,000 people had also fled to Bangladesh. Regular humanitarian assistance has been disrupted for many weeks, putting at risk over 150,000 vulnerable people.
Please explain to me, if there is no wave of violence going on against the Rohingya (WHETHER government forces are DIRECTLY taking part or ALLOWING it to happen), why are tens of thousands of Rohingya risking their lives to board overseas on horribly crowded, dangerously unsafe ships, and at the risk of victimization by other human traffickers? Or do you also deny that this is occuring?
For people like me, we don’t care about who are the victims, who are the perpetrators. Frankly, we don’t care whether a genocide, murder, or terrorism is right or wrong. We take pleasure in understaning why. When verifiable evidence, let’s say videos or photos, of Burmese soliders massacring civllians are out, we are among the first to acknowlege it happens, and ask why. We don’t judge even those who committed henious crimes in history. We believe they are human beings and if we have the same genes and raised in the same circumstances, we would grow up and become the same persons as they do.
So, yeah, you’re good. Only you understand things. You’re moral, a rare thing in this world. Others are racists. Burmese army is full of genocidal soldiers. Rohingyas are suffering a genocide. Your BBC, HRW and Aljazeera are reliable. My six years of reading everything into the conflict from the British rule to this day means nothing compared to your expertise. ASSK, Jacques Leider, and Robert Taylor are racist too. I apologize for my earlier rants. I hope that boosts your serotonin and make you feel better.
I have a hard time understanding what you mean when your statements go back and forth on the issue.
How do you juxtapose statements such as:
“Go inside any mosque, they are INSTRUCTED TO TELL GROSS LIES whenever they meet with any foreigner.”
and
“What I know for sure is the imams and Rohingya leaders have done an excellent job at instructing their followers to lie. ”
With your later statement that only SOME Rohingya lie? And if only SOME Rohingya lie, isn’t it true that SOME are telling the truth, meaning out of the vast records of interviews and transcripts that exist SOME are true, so that there do exist evidence of state-led violence against the Rohingya, which you so deny?
I understand your frustration, but do not blame me for your confusion. It is a result of your own twisted logic.
Labeling an entire population of people as ‘liars’ who are making up false allegations about their own suffering for their own greed is the very evidence of racism.
I find it interesting, but not suprising, that you have failed to comment on anything else I have stated as to how the Burmese army’s failure to provide sufficient protection against mob violence constitutes a form of genocide paralllel that to of the actions of the Turkish army during the Armenian genocide. It is evidently clear that your outrage and intelligence is severly limited to what you think you understand from your pre-held beliefs.
Why would you not having read about mixed children mean that forced rapes do not occur. Why would there even be any reports about ‘mixed kids’ being born in the first place. Who is there to run these tests on ‘sperm samples’ in Rohingya women in the first place, besides the Burmese government itself, as it does it best to shut out all other internationa NGOs from operating in Rakhine state. Your arguments get more and more nonsensical with each post.
No body is saying that Rohingya do not commit acts of violence themselves. I’m sure that any minority, when faced with horrible persecution and abuse will resor to these sorts of acts, yet I do not seek to justify this violence on either side. You keep bringing up these so-called facts like ‘no gunshots being found’ on 20,000 refugees. Who exactly are you claiming has checked each of these individuals and determined that there has been no gunshot wounds? Also how do you ‘know for sure’ that imams are telling Rohingya to lie? For all your demanding of evidence, you sadly offer none of your own.
It’s easy to see why – you have nothing to base your allegations on except likely horribly biased and sensational articles and your own prejudice and pre-determined expectations of these people. This conversation was detrmined to be fruitless from the start. Yet I would like to see you continue to respond, so that maybe you can begin to see where your beliefs come from.
Lacking evidence, you resort to labelling others as ‘racist.’ Wow. Remind me of myself four years ago in which I called a bunch of Arakanese as racists because I had no evidence that Rohingya had been in existence in Arakan well before the British rule. Talk about nostalgia.
SOME Rohingyas engage in lying. So are some Burmese. Just so you know, 90% of Burmese refugees, including many of my friends, in the West have never actually seen an actual “war.” Poor and unemployed, they went to Thailand or Malaysia, and registered as refugees under the UN as a ‘lucky draw.’ When interviewed, they would tell harrowing tales about how the Burmese army had abused them. Now, they live in Norway, US, UK, and other Western countries. I have no ill feelings toward my friends. But that’s the reality they would agree.
Now, look that all the benefits the West has provided for lying. Let me tell you. A woman is fertile for about a week in a month. That means if the so-called rape allegations are true, there would be so many pregnancies arising from those rapes (~25% of the rapes), given no contraception. But to date, I have yet to read a single report about one Rohingya-Burmese mixed kid. I have yet to read a report about sperm samples of Burmese soldiers present in Rohingya women. So, I call these allegations nonsense.
The same goes for so-called murder allegations. During the Du Chee Yar Tan incident, in which the peaceful Rohingyas murdered a sergeant and opened fire on the police, MSF treated several Rohingyas with gunshot wounds. Now, 20,000 so-called refugees have run to Bangladesh, allegedly due to Burmese army opening fire on them. Surprisingly, not a single gunshot wound is to be found! What I know for sure is the imams and Rohingya leaders have done an excellent job at instructing their followers to lie. But they also live in their dream establishing an independent Mulsim enclave. Sadly, they are going to dream forever.
Wow this is a new form of ignorance. Russian invasion of Crimea never happened? The Arab Spring never occurred in Syria? Why in the world have you deluded yourself into believing this?
Ralph Kramden – Millfield : “no school uniform, universally co-educational, no general assembly”. No wonder the parents of then soon-to-be-named Crown Prince – switched him to Sydney’s King’s School. Military uniform, no co-education, general assembly, every day.
Facebook 
Twitter 
Soundcloud 
Youtube 
Rss
Why Rakhine people should embrace human rights
I am telling Rakhine story, because not many do.
Thailand’s long succession
Ah well, perhaps Thailand, alike the US, is overdue for a ‘reset’.
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
Nancy a very good article dealing with real issues. The human tragedy surrounding the Rohingya is simply too appalling for words but in the haste to engage Myanmar the Rohingya are looked upon by those seeking engagement as a bit of a nuisance or anomaly. I remember 2 years ago the ADB attempted to get me to prepare a Country Safeguards Strategy for Myanmar and when I mentioned the Rohingya I was told in the “too hard” box and the priority is first to engage the government and other sectors of society including civil society organizations. I was totally pissed with this BS and did a runner although the ADB will claim I simply refused to complete the work. Keep up the good work although it must be an uphill struggle at this juncture.
The futility of Prayuth’s war on truth
I just wonder if you would care to expand on the notion of “Thais fooling themselves”.
I understand it as a gesture of condescension typical of the way white people, “farang”, on New Mandala prefer to frame their “understanding” of Thai politics but otherwise it seems fairly meaningless.
It is similar, to my way of thinking, to the way folks on NM consistently refer to ungrounded speculation as “information”.
I think the Trump presidency may have a lot to teach us about the way contemporary westerners tend to view such things as “truth”, “information” and “meaning”.
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
‘…Military forces to intervene in Myanmar to protect’. Rather like the ‘genocide’ in Kosovo; after two thousand Serbian casualties, $30 billion of infrastructure damage and bombing with 15000 tons of depleted uranium, it turned out to be ‘fake news’.
Banking on change in scandal-hit Malaysia
Many well qualified Malaysians, especially of Indian or Chinese origin, are leaving the country. I know quite a few of them.
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
The Rohingya genocide – no longer a myth
Dr Habib Siddiqui
RB Article
December 11, 2016
snipped from a long article
And I am not alone when I state that the Rohingyas are victims of genocide. From the Human Rights Watch to the academic experts on genocide concur. Phil Robertson, Asia director for Humans Right Watch, wrote nearly four years ago that “the Burmese government engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing against the Rohingya that continues today”. Professor William Schabas, former President of the International Association of Genocide Scholars, went a step further and cautioned, “we’re moving into a zone where the [genocide] word can be used.”
Whatever doubt, if any, against the use of the term ‘genocide’ have to be shelved after October 9 of this year (2016) when the Myanmar security forces attacked Rohingya villages, ethnically cleansing these. According to ARNO, more than 500 innocent Rohingya civilians were killed, many hundreds of women raped, about 3,500 houses were burned down, unknown number of people arrested and involuntarily disappeared, and at least 40,000 internally displaced, in addition to systematic destruction of rice, paddy and food products. About 10,000 people had also fled to Bangladesh. Regular humanitarian assistance has been disrupted for many weeks, putting at risk over 150,000 vulnerable people.
http://www.rohingyablogger.com/2016/12/the-rohingya-genocide-no-longer-myth.html
The futility of Prayuth’s war on truth
That cliché is often true.
“It is not what you know, but who you know” and for those in Thailand who know “the Lord of life” all things are possible.
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
Please explain to me, if there is no wave of violence going on against the Rohingya (WHETHER government forces are DIRECTLY taking part or ALLOWING it to happen), why are tens of thousands of Rohingya risking their lives to board overseas on horribly crowded, dangerously unsafe ships, and at the risk of victimization by other human traffickers? Or do you also deny that this is occuring?
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
Park.
For people like me, we don’t care about who are the victims, who are the perpetrators. Frankly, we don’t care whether a genocide, murder, or terrorism is right or wrong. We take pleasure in understaning why. When verifiable evidence, let’s say videos or photos, of Burmese soliders massacring civllians are out, we are among the first to acknowlege it happens, and ask why. We don’t judge even those who committed henious crimes in history. We believe they are human beings and if we have the same genes and raised in the same circumstances, we would grow up and become the same persons as they do.
So, yeah, you’re good. Only you understand things. You’re moral, a rare thing in this world. Others are racists. Burmese army is full of genocidal soldiers. Rohingyas are suffering a genocide. Your BBC, HRW and Aljazeera are reliable. My six years of reading everything into the conflict from the British rule to this day means nothing compared to your expertise. ASSK, Jacques Leider, and Robert Taylor are racist too. I apologize for my earlier rants. I hope that boosts your serotonin and make you feel better.
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
I have a hard time understanding what you mean when your statements go back and forth on the issue.
How do you juxtapose statements such as:
“Go inside any mosque, they are INSTRUCTED TO TELL GROSS LIES whenever they meet with any foreigner.”
and
“What I know for sure is the imams and Rohingya leaders have done an excellent job at instructing their followers to lie. ”
With your later statement that only SOME Rohingya lie? And if only SOME Rohingya lie, isn’t it true that SOME are telling the truth, meaning out of the vast records of interviews and transcripts that exist SOME are true, so that there do exist evidence of state-led violence against the Rohingya, which you so deny?
I understand your frustration, but do not blame me for your confusion. It is a result of your own twisted logic.
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
Do you know what “some” means? Your understanding of the issue is very limited. I have nothing to gain from arguing against your rants. Good luck.
The futility of Prayuth’s war on truth
http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2559/E/287/1.PDF
Suthidaa is now a full 4 star general (พลเอก). A meteoric rise to be sure to attain the same rank as Foo Foo (พลอากาศเอก) in such a short time. What could it all mean?
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
Labeling an entire population of people as ‘liars’ who are making up false allegations about their own suffering for their own greed is the very evidence of racism.
I find it interesting, but not suprising, that you have failed to comment on anything else I have stated as to how the Burmese army’s failure to provide sufficient protection against mob violence constitutes a form of genocide paralllel that to of the actions of the Turkish army during the Armenian genocide. It is evidently clear that your outrage and intelligence is severly limited to what you think you understand from your pre-held beliefs.
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
Why would you not having read about mixed children mean that forced rapes do not occur. Why would there even be any reports about ‘mixed kids’ being born in the first place. Who is there to run these tests on ‘sperm samples’ in Rohingya women in the first place, besides the Burmese government itself, as it does it best to shut out all other internationa NGOs from operating in Rakhine state. Your arguments get more and more nonsensical with each post.
No body is saying that Rohingya do not commit acts of violence themselves. I’m sure that any minority, when faced with horrible persecution and abuse will resor to these sorts of acts, yet I do not seek to justify this violence on either side. You keep bringing up these so-called facts like ‘no gunshots being found’ on 20,000 refugees. Who exactly are you claiming has checked each of these individuals and determined that there has been no gunshot wounds? Also how do you ‘know for sure’ that imams are telling Rohingya to lie? For all your demanding of evidence, you sadly offer none of your own.
It’s easy to see why – you have nothing to base your allegations on except likely horribly biased and sensational articles and your own prejudice and pre-determined expectations of these people. This conversation was detrmined to be fruitless from the start. Yet I would like to see you continue to respond, so that maybe you can begin to see where your beliefs come from.
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
Lacking evidence, you resort to labelling others as ‘racist.’ Wow. Remind me of myself four years ago in which I called a bunch of Arakanese as racists because I had no evidence that Rohingya had been in existence in Arakan well before the British rule. Talk about nostalgia.
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
SOME Rohingyas engage in lying. So are some Burmese. Just so you know, 90% of Burmese refugees, including many of my friends, in the West have never actually seen an actual “war.” Poor and unemployed, they went to Thailand or Malaysia, and registered as refugees under the UN as a ‘lucky draw.’ When interviewed, they would tell harrowing tales about how the Burmese army had abused them. Now, they live in Norway, US, UK, and other Western countries. I have no ill feelings toward my friends. But that’s the reality they would agree.
Now, look that all the benefits the West has provided for lying. Let me tell you. A woman is fertile for about a week in a month. That means if the so-called rape allegations are true, there would be so many pregnancies arising from those rapes (~25% of the rapes), given no contraception. But to date, I have yet to read a single report about one Rohingya-Burmese mixed kid. I have yet to read a report about sperm samples of Burmese soldiers present in Rohingya women. So, I call these allegations nonsense.
The same goes for so-called murder allegations. During the Du Chee Yar Tan incident, in which the peaceful Rohingyas murdered a sergeant and opened fire on the police, MSF treated several Rohingyas with gunshot wounds. Now, 20,000 so-called refugees have run to Bangladesh, allegedly due to Burmese army opening fire on them. Surprisingly, not a single gunshot wound is to be found! What I know for sure is the imams and Rohingya leaders have done an excellent job at instructing their followers to lie. But they also live in their dream establishing an independent Mulsim enclave. Sadly, they are going to dream forever.
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
Wow this is a new form of ignorance. Russian invasion of Crimea never happened? The Arab Spring never occurred in Syria? Why in the world have you deluded yourself into believing this?
The futility of Prayuth’s war on truth
Yes. Scary and probably accurate.
The futility of Prayuth’s war on truth
Ralph Kramden – Millfield : “no school uniform, universally co-educational, no general assembly”. No wonder the parents of then soon-to-be-named Crown Prince – switched him to Sydney’s King’s School. Military uniform, no co-education, general assembly, every day.