The Burmese government is reforming, yes, but it is also true that the military still to holds much of the power and control in the country. Let me ask you: why has Myanmar been a country with one of the most bloody and violent history with its minority groups in the world? Why have so many minority insurgent groups been formed and waged war against the military dictatorship? The motivation behind the Tatmadaw’s complicity (or direct involvement) in the ongoing atrocities against the Rohingya are undoubtedly tied to their desire to exploit and exacerbate the already fraught and hostile relations that exist between the Rohingya minority and the significant majority of the Burmese Buddhist population in order to consolidate their own power and legitimacy.
The persecution of a minority group in order to unify and legitimize the ruling authority has been seen time and time again throughout history, it only speaks to the cruel nature of humanity. (See: Spanish Inquisition, Rwandan Genocide, and of course, the Holocaust) Aung San Su Kyi, while not directly leading these genocidal agendas herself, seems to be unwilling to compromise her influence with the military to oppose or combat these atrocities.
As per your point regarding the migration of the Rohingya: impoverishment, statelessness and immobility are common characteristics of persecuted migrant groups found all over the world. Yet there is no massive outmigration flow of desperate Kurds or Uyghurs risking their lives to escape their conditions. Why is this? Part of it is undoubtably their status of at least partial recognition and self-autonomy; the Burmese government does not allow this for the Rohingya. But the most significant driver can be seen by comparing the commonality of other refugees who are and have fled from their homes in huge numbers: Circassians, Syrians, Salvadorans, Hondurans, Nicaraguans, and even with Myanmar itself the minority people of Shan, Karen, Kachin state. It is violence and the fear of one’s own life – whether driven by the state or by the surrounding context – that cretaes this horrific desperation in people. To argue otherwise would be either ignoring the risks of the journeys that these people take, or to see them as the actual ‘irrational actors’ .
I would like to add to HRK: Martin Smith in the 90s wrote about the dreadful consequences of the Nagamin operation in Rakhine in 1978. But he also states that this was directed against a longlasting Mujahid campaign by the Muslims to seced the Mayu Frontier Division from Burma and join it to Islamic Bangladesh. So what now about the Rohingya being Burmese citizens for centuries, if in the 70s they still tried to unite with Bangladesh? I repeat: nothing justifies killing, torture or rape. But that does not mean that the Rohingya are all blue-eyed darlings. Btw: nobody seems to have anything to say about Buddhists in Bangladesh (Chakma and others) being ill-treated, driven away, often even killed. What about that?
I agree absolutely. The same arguments and mindless insults are traded again here. The valuable points that are made by others besides the barks by SWH and S.Park are completely overlooked. Look at some historical facts and the context this all is happening before getting on your high moral horse (Falang, I do not mean you!)
Whilst my own experience of the country and its strange, strange ways is lilliputian by comparison, the general contours clime. Self righteous articles like this used to anger me, now I just see them for what they are – self serving puffery. Applying the “standards’ of the Napier “University” – FE college in my day, politics faculty to a country like this is akin to trying to self diagnose hemorrhoids with a rusty old biscuit tin lid. That said it keeps the author in nicely remunerated employment – which is after all the prime directive of the modern day publicly-funded British academic.
Does anything contradict the military argument? No. The army said the Rohingya burned their own houses and left once they saw soldiers. They didn’t say they burned their own houses out of nowhere.
The pattern of Rohingya burning their own houses was witnessed and well-reported in local media during the 2012 riots. So far, nothing has contradicted the claims.
I do not argue that atrocities do not take place! I just argue in favour of well researched data and unbiased analysis and to avoid terms like genocide etc. I regard the usage of such a term in this context as insult to those who suffered genocide like the indigenous americans, European jews, roma and sinti during the Nazi time, the Armenians in Turky, etc.
In the beginning you say that the “international community continues to turn a blind eye” on the Rohingya issue, while in the article you make many references to international papers etc. I think the Rohingya issue is widely discussed internationally, although often based on hearsay and not well researched information. Thereason is, not the least, that media and international NGO have to define issues for their work. Certainly one reason for the lack of information is that it is hard and difficult to get data on the ground in Rakhine state. From what I learned the issue is slightly more complex then Rakhine Buddhists attacking Muslim Rohingya with the support of the military. At least a few remarks made by Muslim extremists in Myanmar are challenging, like to turn Myanmar into a Muslim state, to introduce the Sharia etc. Of course, one could say that these are just remarks from a few weirdos, but how to distinguish them from others without proper information?
Speaking of international ignorance, why do the int. NGO, media etc. not report about the struggle of the Kachin and Shan?
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Stubbornly separate
Interesting article.
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
Right, and random WordPress websites are clearly credible? .
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
I have not read anything from Jacques Leider that says “the bulk of the Rohingyas came to the Rakhine after WWII.” I am just curious.
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
*without hard evidence.
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
I have no idea Park. We can speculate days and nights but will lead nowhere with hard evidence.
Best.
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
The Soros-funded Global Centre for the Responsibilty to Protect which forms the basis of this article, is definitely not a ‘credible’ source (Libya is an earlier example of their ‘protection’).
HRW, the BBC and anonymous Youtube videos are equally worthless.
http://www.dcclothesline.com/2015/03/10/propaganda-fail-soros-funded-human-rights-watch-posts-photo-of-american-bombing-destruction-and-blames-assad/
http://www.thecanary.co/2016/05/06/the-abysmal-local-elections-coverage-shows-the-bbc-has-moved-beyond-bias-to-pure-propaganda/
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
… No I haven’t?
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
The Burmese government is reforming, yes, but it is also true that the military still to holds much of the power and control in the country. Let me ask you: why has Myanmar been a country with one of the most bloody and violent history with its minority groups in the world? Why have so many minority insurgent groups been formed and waged war against the military dictatorship? The motivation behind the Tatmadaw’s complicity (or direct involvement) in the ongoing atrocities against the Rohingya are undoubtedly tied to their desire to exploit and exacerbate the already fraught and hostile relations that exist between the Rohingya minority and the significant majority of the Burmese Buddhist population in order to consolidate their own power and legitimacy.
The persecution of a minority group in order to unify and legitimize the ruling authority has been seen time and time again throughout history, it only speaks to the cruel nature of humanity. (See: Spanish Inquisition, Rwandan Genocide, and of course, the Holocaust) Aung San Su Kyi, while not directly leading these genocidal agendas herself, seems to be unwilling to compromise her influence with the military to oppose or combat these atrocities.
As per your point regarding the migration of the Rohingya: impoverishment, statelessness and immobility are common characteristics of persecuted migrant groups found all over the world. Yet there is no massive outmigration flow of desperate Kurds or Uyghurs risking their lives to escape their conditions. Why is this? Part of it is undoubtably their status of at least partial recognition and self-autonomy; the Burmese government does not allow this for the Rohingya. But the most significant driver can be seen by comparing the commonality of other refugees who are and have fled from their homes in huge numbers: Circassians, Syrians, Salvadorans, Hondurans, Nicaraguans, and even with Myanmar itself the minority people of Shan, Karen, Kachin state. It is violence and the fear of one’s own life – whether driven by the state or by the surrounding context – that cretaes this horrific desperation in people. To argue otherwise would be either ignoring the risks of the journeys that these people take, or to see them as the actual ‘irrational actors’ .
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
I would like to add to HRK: Martin Smith in the 90s wrote about the dreadful consequences of the Nagamin operation in Rakhine in 1978. But he also states that this was directed against a longlasting Mujahid campaign by the Muslims to seced the Mayu Frontier Division from Burma and join it to Islamic Bangladesh. So what now about the Rohingya being Burmese citizens for centuries, if in the 70s they still tried to unite with Bangladesh? I repeat: nothing justifies killing, torture or rape. But that does not mean that the Rohingya are all blue-eyed darlings. Btw: nobody seems to have anything to say about Buddhists in Bangladesh (Chakma and others) being ill-treated, driven away, often even killed. What about that?
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
I agree absolutely. The same arguments and mindless insults are traded again here. The valuable points that are made by others besides the barks by SWH and S.Park are completely overlooked. Look at some historical facts and the context this all is happening before getting on your high moral horse (Falang, I do not mean you!)
What next for the theatrics of Thailand?
chime
“is” the prime………
Sodding robots!
What next for the theatrics of Thailand?
Bravo. That made me laugh out loud.
Whilst my own experience of the country and its strange, strange ways is lilliputian by comparison, the general contours clime. Self righteous articles like this used to anger me, now I just see them for what they are – self serving puffery. Applying the “standards’ of the Napier “University” – FE college in my day, politics faculty to a country like this is akin to trying to self diagnose hemorrhoids with a rusty old biscuit tin lid. That said it keeps the author in nicely remunerated employment – which is after all the prime directive of the modern day publicly-funded British academic.
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
Does anything contradict the military argument? No. The army said the Rohingya burned their own houses and left once they saw soldiers. They didn’t say they burned their own houses out of nowhere.
The pattern of Rohingya burning their own houses was witnessed and well-reported in local media during the 2012 riots. So far, nothing has contradicted the claims.
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
I do not argue that atrocities do not take place! I just argue in favour of well researched data and unbiased analysis and to avoid terms like genocide etc. I regard the usage of such a term in this context as insult to those who suffered genocide like the indigenous americans, European jews, roma and sinti during the Nazi time, the Armenians in Turky, etc.
The futility of Prayuth’s war on truth
Correct, that is why we can assume they are married
The futility of Prayuth’s war on truth
Apologies for the late reply ,
as to Thai’s Fooling themselves simply see the claims in local media re extraditing LM suspects and build from there .
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
^
https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/12/13/burma-military-burned-villages-rakhine-state
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
It is quite interesting how positions of persons who are comparatively well informed and have differentiated positions are either ignored or attacked. A good example is Jaques Leider. See for example:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/yangon-press-international/interview-with-rakhine-history-expert-on-the-recent-communal-conflict-in-rakhine/418657374847557/
http://www.rohingyablogger.com/2015/03/action-demanded-against-un-advisor-dr.html
http://brouk.org.uk/?p=305
It seems that a rather outspoken part of the international community is not really interested in unbiased, scientific information!
Decades of denial as Rohingya genocide continues
In the beginning you say that the “international community continues to turn a blind eye” on the Rohingya issue, while in the article you make many references to international papers etc. I think the Rohingya issue is widely discussed internationally, although often based on hearsay and not well researched information. Thereason is, not the least, that media and international NGO have to define issues for their work. Certainly one reason for the lack of information is that it is hard and difficult to get data on the ground in Rakhine state. From what I learned the issue is slightly more complex then Rakhine Buddhists attacking Muslim Rohingya with the support of the military. At least a few remarks made by Muslim extremists in Myanmar are challenging, like to turn Myanmar into a Muslim state, to introduce the Sharia etc. Of course, one could say that these are just remarks from a few weirdos, but how to distinguish them from others without proper information?
Speaking of international ignorance, why do the int. NGO, media etc. not report about the struggle of the Kachin and Shan?
The futility of Prayuth’s war on truth
I will not say that I’m 100% positive of this but I believe I’ve seen her referred to as ” Suthida Vajiralongkorn na Ayutthaya “