Khemthong, not sure that says much as the Constitutional Court (as we can all see), has long been in the hands of royalists, anti-democratic advocates, and working in the interests of the Democrat Party. Not exactly an impartial history.
Indeed its great outline I thought. Considering sboutvehst really going on and tending about lgbt here. No matter what your race, religion and where dou live maybe I disagree about the lgbt. Some might will say its their right to bring and do what they will. But the most important thing I guess is that : is really okey with your inner soul and your body? I mean let say when you do such a things you like but its commonly only hurts you, physically and pschologycally then its notvrigjt thing to do I guess. When the health and gofness away due to of your pleasants things then I called suiced. To living is not only about to pursue the “happiness” but tend to get the meaning of itself. How you csn be good yo others if you want to be the one. How we interact with the others without doing sarcasm and such get rid is more valuable things values I guess. Then if you have a good faith I do believe that our heart guides us to be a god person and do “right things”.
Sorry Jim, you might have to check the fact again. Abhisit invoked the emergency decree at least twice in 2009 and 2010. See Constitutional Court Decision 9/2553 (2010) and 10-11/2553 (2010). Abhisit and the Police force were accused of unduly exercising emergency power, the Constituional Court dismissed both cases.
Let’s start with the ridiculous Hollywood status accorded Daw Aung San Suu Kyi ten years ago because the West thought she was their pawn, to the revolting pariah status she is now accorded by the West because she rightly refuses to accede to the Leftist demands of the West and condemn a non-existent bogus “genocide”. If the West really wants to help Myanmar, it can start by stopping its pseudo-Palestine “Rohingya” game, and apologize to both Thein Sein and DASSK. Otherwise, butt out.
The comment “Thaksin’s Emergency Decree, which was invoked to crack down on his supporters’ demonstrations…” is a puzzling statement. It may be seen even as an example of the salim’s continuing distortion of truths (post-truths?). In fact, the Emergency Decree on Government Administration in a State of Emergency (2005), signed by the late king, was initiated during Thaksin’s government as a response to the insurgency in the south (*it was enthusiastically taken on by the military; and the act itself widely criticised at the time by CSOs; see ICJ report: http://icj.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2005/08/Thailand-accountability-advocacy-2005.pdf). There was later Yingluck’s use of a State of Emergency in Bangkok and surrounding areas in January 2014 to counter mass violence caused by Suthep’s PDRC. But in this case, it should be recalled that no one took notice of the order as part of the wider amaat-military plot to bring to bring her elected government down; neither the military or public sector. And, on this track, the writer may want mention Abhisit Vejjajiva’s vile Internal Security Act, which was an excuse for a massacre of at least 90+ documented unarmed protestors?
JohnF’s caustic observation has more truth than most NM readers would like to acknowledge. When I first began working in Thailand, I was struck by how easily intelligent and self-confident people can be transformed into obsequious cowards in the face of superior status. This feudal notion of status as bestowed rather than earned goes a long way in explaining these frustrating turns that JohnF mentions. People who despised the CP were magically transformed into adoring supporters simply from his being crowned, and 112 does not explain why they did not just vote with their feet (or, in the case of Bike for Dad, their wheels).
“Angliphile and immigrant chinese do not represent Sarawakian voice” well you are an obvious racist.Im 16 year old and malay.most of my peers understand that Sarawaks unity transcends race or religion.Youre probably one of those old guys who think “chinese should go back to where they came from”.The chinese had helped Sarawakian development grow alot in the 20th century and still is now.and Joseph could also be a Sarawakian name.the ibans and kayans mostly use english names nowadays which is influenced by the british probably.Trust me,your narrow way of thinking will fade away among future Sarawakians because we know how important it is to be a united people.Now go back to the cave you came from.
Great article finally writing about something of substance in Thailand rather than the tedious and endless parade of unproven royal gossip and speculation that seems to get so much more attention.
That this article gets so few comments and such little interest whilst the latest tittle tattle and analysis from commentators who, strangely, to get almost everything wrong, appear to be lauded says everything you need to know about the very poor kind of debate that exists on Thailand.
The promoters of human rights come from a culture in which public behaviour is not only rules-based, but based on a particular set of rules which is evolving with time. They have no understanding that another culture might have different rules, or rules that come second to patronage, and that if a patron breaks a rule, the interest of the patron is paramount and the rule is simply ignored. The promoters of human rights live by a better system, but by no means the best one. They just accept it dogmatically. No wonder they can’t teach it to anybody else. Western culture is adrift and getting worse because its promoters don’t understand it either. Each person’s passionate beliefs in justice have been shaped by the rhetoric to which they have been exposed, not by an understanding of how the rules work. Much of the rhetoric is delivered by capitalist news media in the knowledge that nothing sells a story better than moral outrage. Consequently moral outrage is out of control, and cool-headed analysis is thin on the ground. Prisons are bursting at the seams and the public is demanding that even more citizens be punished and more police be employed to do it. The main opposition to this trend is from pro-crime lawyers pedaling the opposite rhetoric. They are all mad. Mad Westerners go to Cambodia and demand that old men who haven’t harmed anybody for years be tracked down and punished. Hun Sen is right to kick them out.
The point about Cambodia and the “tragic conflict” is that the Paris Peace Accords gave all signatories including the warring parties, the UN, and other nations, lasting obligations in relation to human rights and democracy. The Cambodian Government has not yet proved that this international supervision is no longer needed.
“A. Final Act of the Paris Conference on Cambodia
The first major reference to human rights is in the Final Act of the Paris Conference on Cambodia. Article 12, paragraph 2 states that:
“Above all, in view of the recent tragic history of Cambodia, the States participating in the Conference commit themselves to promote and encourage respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms in Cambodia, as embodied in the relevant international instruments to which they are party.”
Malaysia said on Monday the plight of Rohingya Muslims in Burma was a regional concern and called for the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) to coordinate humanitarian aid and investigate alleged atrocities committed against them.
I recall you criticizing me for “kicking” Yingluck while she was “down” because I suggested that restrictions on her ability to go shopping where and when she pleased were not really something I sympathized much with.
As a working-class social democrat I am not given to caring much about the rights and privileges of the billionaire classes, whereas you seem to spread your sympathies all across the board whenever it suits your rant of the moment.
As to Thai labor existing in conditions of “terror”, I wonder if you could trace the development of labor organizations in Thailand going back to the world-changing events of the ’97 crisis and moving forward to now as a way of providing even a modicum of evidence for your apparent belief that this most recent coup has somehow changed things radically.
I recall a major speech made by the democratically-elected billionaire capitalist Thaksin Shinawatra on May Day back in 2005 the main point of which was to justify his oligarchical refusal to consider an increase in the minimum wage.
In direct and blatant contradiction of TRT platform promises to attempt to move the Thai economy up the skills and technology ladder, Thaksin emphasized the need to keep wages low in order to compete with slave-states like China.
One reason so much of Thailand’s minimal labor organization moved so powerfully into the Yellow camp was the rather obvious fact, occluded now by the simplistic belief that anti-junta equals pro-democracy and democracy will save the day for all the little folks in Thailand, that Thaksin’s government was a government of capitalist oligarchs for capitalist oligarchs by capitalist oligarchs.
Not that things are any better now, mind you, but to focus on labor and conditions for labor unions as a way of critiquing the junta vis a vis what democracy has to offer is more than a little misguided.
And as unpleasant as it may be for western “liberals” to contemplate, even when the ultra-wealthy are elected on a populist platform, it isn’t always a good thing for workers.
The lessons that the Trump presidency holds for such folks promise to be manifold and far-reaching as they reveal themselves over the next 4 or 8 years.
Well taken Mark. It was a rhetorical question not an attack. It is interesting that I deleted a quote from Mark Twain in the original response. “History does not repeat itself but it often rhymes.” So we are in accord. I close with another quote from The Unforgiven-“Deserving’s got nothin to do with it!”
I can see this as a possible solution in the long term. Although getting there will be quite the feat for a country like Thailand that has such a long history of highly centralized government.
Re-RNAP God no! No people deserve that. It was not my intention to imply otherwise. The point I was trying to make was that “those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it”. I was shocked by, what seemed to me, the almost hopeful tone struck by “Eddie Munster” in the post I was replying to. My intention was simply to state that one half of the Thai people turning on the other could have no happy ending.
Ethnocentric Crap…what is “their 15th century mentality”? I am glad someone like you is not a teacher of history in the school that our kids go to and surely no university would put up with your “ethnocentrism”. Plus of course reluctant to identify yourself: one of the obvious signs of cowardliness and lack of moral courage.
Mark, do you think the Khmer deserved the genocide of the killing fields? Admittedly, LM laws and KR strictures are just one of the many tools used in the arsenal of silence by any oppressive power or regime. The KR regime and taking Cambodia back to “year zero” caused the brutal death of 1.5-3 million innocent Cambodians-“To spare you is no profit, to destroy you is no loss.”
A strange cultural marker of genocide is the need to return back to some imaginary/mythical past. As well as dehumanization on a mass scale. I might be misinformed or naive but I have not seen this in Thailand.
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Inching toward Orwell
Khemthong, not sure that says much as the Constitutional Court (as we can all see), has long been in the hands of royalists, anti-democratic advocates, and working in the interests of the Democrat Party. Not exactly an impartial history.
The criminalisation of LGBT people in Indonesia
Indeed its great outline I thought. Considering sboutvehst really going on and tending about lgbt here. No matter what your race, religion and where dou live maybe I disagree about the lgbt. Some might will say its their right to bring and do what they will. But the most important thing I guess is that : is really okey with your inner soul and your body? I mean let say when you do such a things you like but its commonly only hurts you, physically and pschologycally then its notvrigjt thing to do I guess. When the health and gofness away due to of your pleasants things then I called suiced. To living is not only about to pursue the “happiness” but tend to get the meaning of itself. How you csn be good yo others if you want to be the one. How we interact with the others without doing sarcasm and such get rid is more valuable things values I guess. Then if you have a good faith I do believe that our heart guides us to be a god person and do “right things”.
Inching toward Orwell
Sorry Jim, you might have to check the fact again. Abhisit invoked the emergency decree at least twice in 2009 and 2010. See Constitutional Court Decision 9/2553 (2010) and 10-11/2553 (2010). Abhisit and the Police force were accused of unduly exercising emergency power, the Constituional Court dismissed both cases.
No peace without women
Let’s start with the ridiculous Hollywood status accorded Daw Aung San Suu Kyi ten years ago because the West thought she was their pawn, to the revolting pariah status she is now accorded by the West because she rightly refuses to accede to the Leftist demands of the West and condemn a non-existent bogus “genocide”. If the West really wants to help Myanmar, it can start by stopping its pseudo-Palestine “Rohingya” game, and apologize to both Thein Sein and DASSK. Otherwise, butt out.
Inching toward Orwell
The comment “Thaksin’s Emergency Decree, which was invoked to crack down on his supporters’ demonstrations…” is a puzzling statement. It may be seen even as an example of the salim’s continuing distortion of truths (post-truths?). In fact, the Emergency Decree on Government Administration in a State of Emergency (2005), signed by the late king, was initiated during Thaksin’s government as a response to the insurgency in the south (*it was enthusiastically taken on by the military; and the act itself widely criticised at the time by CSOs; see ICJ report: http://icj.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2005/08/Thailand-accountability-advocacy-2005.pdf). There was later Yingluck’s use of a State of Emergency in Bangkok and surrounding areas in January 2014 to counter mass violence caused by Suthep’s PDRC. But in this case, it should be recalled that no one took notice of the order as part of the wider amaat-military plot to bring to bring her elected government down; neither the military or public sector. And, on this track, the writer may want mention Abhisit Vejjajiva’s vile Internal Security Act, which was an excuse for a massacre of at least 90+ documented unarmed protestors?
A new chapter, but the same old story
JohnF’s caustic observation has more truth than most NM readers would like to acknowledge. When I first began working in Thailand, I was struck by how easily intelligent and self-confident people can be transformed into obsequious cowards in the face of superior status. This feudal notion of status as bestowed rather than earned goes a long way in explaining these frustrating turns that JohnF mentions. People who despised the CP were magically transformed into adoring supporters simply from his being crowned, and 112 does not explain why they did not just vote with their feet (or, in the case of Bike for Dad, their wheels).
Sarawak’s “Independence Day”
“Angliphile and immigrant chinese do not represent Sarawakian voice” well you are an obvious racist.Im 16 year old and malay.most of my peers understand that Sarawaks unity transcends race or religion.Youre probably one of those old guys who think “chinese should go back to where they came from”.The chinese had helped Sarawakian development grow alot in the 20th century and still is now.and Joseph could also be a Sarawakian name.the ibans and kayans mostly use english names nowadays which is influenced by the british probably.Trust me,your narrow way of thinking will fade away among future Sarawakians because we know how important it is to be a united people.Now go back to the cave you came from.
Post-300 baht Thailand
Great article finally writing about something of substance in Thailand rather than the tedious and endless parade of unproven royal gossip and speculation that seems to get so much more attention.
That this article gets so few comments and such little interest whilst the latest tittle tattle and analysis from commentators who, strangely, to get almost everything wrong, appear to be lauded says everything you need to know about the very poor kind of debate that exists on Thailand.
Inching toward Orwell
Excellent article , only issue I have is the ‘ inching’ , more to the point is the head long rush .
I pray that the genie is sufficiently out of the bottle to make the return impossible .
PM Najib remarks on Rohingya
Please check the Urdu word for Rohingya – or better still, ask a pakistani.
The high cost of criticism
The promoters of human rights come from a culture in which public behaviour is not only rules-based, but based on a particular set of rules which is evolving with time. They have no understanding that another culture might have different rules, or rules that come second to patronage, and that if a patron breaks a rule, the interest of the patron is paramount and the rule is simply ignored. The promoters of human rights live by a better system, but by no means the best one. They just accept it dogmatically. No wonder they can’t teach it to anybody else. Western culture is adrift and getting worse because its promoters don’t understand it either. Each person’s passionate beliefs in justice have been shaped by the rhetoric to which they have been exposed, not by an understanding of how the rules work. Much of the rhetoric is delivered by capitalist news media in the knowledge that nothing sells a story better than moral outrage. Consequently moral outrage is out of control, and cool-headed analysis is thin on the ground. Prisons are bursting at the seams and the public is demanding that even more citizens be punished and more police be employed to do it. The main opposition to this trend is from pro-crime lawyers pedaling the opposite rhetoric. They are all mad. Mad Westerners go to Cambodia and demand that old men who haven’t harmed anybody for years be tracked down and punished. Hun Sen is right to kick them out.
The high cost of criticism
The point about Cambodia and the “tragic conflict” is that the Paris Peace Accords gave all signatories including the warring parties, the UN, and other nations, lasting obligations in relation to human rights and democracy. The Cambodian Government has not yet proved that this international supervision is no longer needed.
“A. Final Act of the Paris Conference on Cambodia
The first major reference to human rights is in the Final Act of the Paris Conference on Cambodia. Article 12, paragraph 2 states that:
“Above all, in view of the recent tragic history of Cambodia, the States participating in the Conference commit themselves to promote and encourage respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms in Cambodia, as embodied in the relevant international instruments to which they are party.”
PM Najib remarks on Rohingya
19 December 2016
Malaysia said on Monday the plight of Rohingya Muslims in Burma was a regional concern and called for the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) to coordinate humanitarian aid and investigate alleged atrocities committed against them.
http://www.dvb.no/news/malaysia-calls-asean-coordinate-aid-rohingya/73175
Post-300 baht Thailand
Ah, Wester.
I recall you criticizing me for “kicking” Yingluck while she was “down” because I suggested that restrictions on her ability to go shopping where and when she pleased were not really something I sympathized much with.
As a working-class social democrat I am not given to caring much about the rights and privileges of the billionaire classes, whereas you seem to spread your sympathies all across the board whenever it suits your rant of the moment.
As to Thai labor existing in conditions of “terror”, I wonder if you could trace the development of labor organizations in Thailand going back to the world-changing events of the ’97 crisis and moving forward to now as a way of providing even a modicum of evidence for your apparent belief that this most recent coup has somehow changed things radically.
I recall a major speech made by the democratically-elected billionaire capitalist Thaksin Shinawatra on May Day back in 2005 the main point of which was to justify his oligarchical refusal to consider an increase in the minimum wage.
In direct and blatant contradiction of TRT platform promises to attempt to move the Thai economy up the skills and technology ladder, Thaksin emphasized the need to keep wages low in order to compete with slave-states like China.
One reason so much of Thailand’s minimal labor organization moved so powerfully into the Yellow camp was the rather obvious fact, occluded now by the simplistic belief that anti-junta equals pro-democracy and democracy will save the day for all the little folks in Thailand, that Thaksin’s government was a government of capitalist oligarchs for capitalist oligarchs by capitalist oligarchs.
Not that things are any better now, mind you, but to focus on labor and conditions for labor unions as a way of critiquing the junta vis a vis what democracy has to offer is more than a little misguided.
And as unpleasant as it may be for western “liberals” to contemplate, even when the ultra-wealthy are elected on a populist platform, it isn’t always a good thing for workers.
The lessons that the Trump presidency holds for such folks promise to be manifold and far-reaching as they reveal themselves over the next 4 or 8 years.
A new chapter, but the same old story
Well taken Mark. It was a rhetorical question not an attack. It is interesting that I deleted a quote from Mark Twain in the original response. “History does not repeat itself but it often rhymes.” So we are in accord. I close with another quote from The Unforgiven-“Deserving’s got nothin to do with it!”
A new chapter, but the same old story
I can see this as a possible solution in the long term. Although getting there will be quite the feat for a country like Thailand that has such a long history of highly centralized government.
A new chapter, but the same old story
Re-RNAP God no! No people deserve that. It was not my intention to imply otherwise. The point I was trying to make was that “those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it”. I was shocked by, what seemed to me, the almost hopeful tone struck by “Eddie Munster” in the post I was replying to. My intention was simply to state that one half of the Thai people turning on the other could have no happy ending.
Myanmar’s Rohingya need tomorrow’s fairer world today
Ethnocentric Crap…what is “their 15th century mentality”? I am glad someone like you is not a teacher of history in the school that our kids go to and surely no university would put up with your “ethnocentrism”. Plus of course reluctant to identify yourself: one of the obvious signs of cowardliness and lack of moral courage.
A new chapter, but the same old story
indeed , civil war is the likely outcome should the current one sided repression be continued .
A new chapter, but the same old story
Mark, do you think the Khmer deserved the genocide of the killing fields? Admittedly, LM laws and KR strictures are just one of the many tools used in the arsenal of silence by any oppressive power or regime. The KR regime and taking Cambodia back to “year zero” caused the brutal death of 1.5-3 million innocent Cambodians-“To spare you is no profit, to destroy you is no loss.”
A strange cultural marker of genocide is the need to return back to some imaginary/mythical past. As well as dehumanization on a mass scale. I might be misinformed or naive but I have not seen this in Thailand.