How would Orwell have written Politics And The THAI Language ? His “Politics And The ENGLISH Language” was written post-WW2. Hitler never claimed to be a “democrat”, and was rigidly anti-royalist. Orwell famously fought in Spain’s civil war. He’d probably label Prayut a Falangist. Franco was a royalist.
“various pro working-class governments before the latest military coup” include Thai Rak Thai, People’s Power Party, and Puea Thai. You really don’t know that?
Actually, Jim, I asked for more detail concerning “various pro working-class governments before the latest military coup” and not “recent governments supported by working-class Thais.
If you have difficulty seeing the difference, think of it this way: Donald Trump was “supported” by working-class Americans in the recent election but only a fool would imagine that that will translate into the Trump administration being a “pro working-class government”.
And, funny thing, I can’t for the life of me imagine any of the many working-class Thais I know receiving “hope” from the voices of Aj Pavin and Pridi before the recent coup. Obviously you know a whole different class of working-class Thais.
Enjoy your “keeping up” on matters related to Thai politics! And do spend some time considering what Orwell meant by “obliterating their own understanding of their history”.
While ASEAN is in its early days of shaping a role in the cross-border implications of Arakan State’s volatility and stability in Burma, the retreat at least made it clear that this “internal” matter is now officially an ASEAN issue.
Michael – OK, I’m beginning to see that you haven’t been keeping up on matters Thai. You ask for “more detail” regarding recent governments supported by working-class Thais. Try googling Thai Rak Thai, People’s Power Party, and Puea Thai. And ref “voices” – you can go from Pridi Banomyong to Pavin Chachavalpongpun and any number of patriots in-between who were exiled (or worse) by reactionary military/ammart interests.
I can assure you I have no problem differentiating between “pigs-at-the-trough” and working-class folks.
What I am having a problem with is my impression that you are either engaged in “obliterating” any and all understanding of Thai history or simply don’t know any.
Please just indulge a long-time admirer of Orwell and provide a few names for specific “voices” who provided hope for working-class people.
I would also appreciate a little more detail about the “various pro working-class governments before the latest military coup” that you so vaguely refer to.
Another quote from Orwell’s essay on political language in its propagandistic and thought-murdering mode:
” The writer either has a meaning and cannot express it, or he inadvertently says something else, or he is almost indifferent as to whether his words mean anything or not. This mixture of vagueness and sheer incompetence is the most marked characteristic of modern English prose, and especially of any kind of political writing.”
So do take the opportunity to veer away from the vague handwaving and share some specifics.
A man has been found dead with stab wounds in Burma’s Arakan State, in what the government said on Monday was the second murder in under a week of a Rohingya who cooperated with authorities as they crack down on suspected insurgents.
The “voices” I obviously am referring to are those who led and supported the government’s policies before the 2006 coup, and then again various pro working-class governments before the latest military coup. I see no evidence in your posts that you possess any understanding of the divide separating those working-class folks from the pigs-at-the-trough corrupt military/ammart interests.
Not to put too much stress on “meaning” in any given political political statement, since that in itself is an “Orwellian” operation, I wonder if you could identify some of those “voices” in their pre-coup manifestation and show how they gave “hope to working-class Thais”.
I would be interested if you would also address the obviously Orwell-inspired point of my post, i.e. the suggestion that the way a phrase like “democratically elected” is used to describe the previous administration is an instance of the kind of language Orwell excoriates in his much-loved essay “Politics and the English Language”.
I would like to add at this point that while this junta obviously lies and spouts nonsense in public and is promoting a crude program of propaganda aimed at everyone in Thai society from children on up, this is nothing unusual where governments are concerned and that all populations are subject to this sort of disrespect from their leaders, “democratically elected” or not.
Some people in subject populations around the planet prefer not to question the swill and just get on with getting and spending. Others obviously simply ignore what they know is garbage and do the same thing. While yet others call out the nonsense and make attempts to “set the record straight” as it were.
A further interesting group seems to spend an inordinate amount of time and energy going with the flow in their own societies and calling out the flaws and injustices visited upon other peoples in totally other societies, thus reproducing the kind of imperialist rhetoric that is so perfectly encapsulated in Kipling’s poem “Falang’s Burden” (to give it the appropriate Thai coloring here).
But my main interest is in questioning your lovely sounding assertion about the “voices that would bring a modicum of hope to working-class Thais”.
Who are they and what evidence do you have that while Yingluck was being besieged by folks wearing t-shirts with her image printed on it and promising “Free Tablet Computers!” as an education policy there were voices giving hope?
I saw a picture of Kim Jong-un being mobbed by schoolkids the other day, some crying with joy, some just gobsmacked by the presence of celebrity power.
I imagine that one day, after the DPRK gets absorbed into the economics of neoliberalism and the people lose their victim status, pictures like that will be held up by “Orwellians” to suggest that at least the Kim regime gave the people “hope”. I really hope that is not the kind of “hope” we are talking about here.
Mat Rempit, you ask why 1MDB is not mentioned in the article?
Well, let’s see … The author is the current “Tun Abdul Razak Chair and Visiting Professor of Political Science at Ohio University.” Here’s what Ohio University tells us about this professorship:
“The Tun Abdul Razak Chair was established in 1980 by Ohio University’s Center for Southeast Asia Studies. The endowed chair [was] named after Malaysia’s second Prime Minister [who was father of the present one]. The [recipient of this award] is selected by the Malaysian Ministry of Education, the Tun Abdul Razak Council, and Ohio University [and is funded by] the Malaysian Government and matching funds from American firms with business interests in Malaysia.”
Is it any wonder that someone in this position does not include the 1MDB scandal and various other criminal acts in his analysis of Malaysian politics?
Academic freedom is one thing but academic suicide is quite another.
“Thai realities?” The reality today is that the Kingdom has entered a period of vicious repression of the voices that would bring a modicum of hope to working-class Thais. There was hope under the elected governments that preceded the most recent coup. Now?
Nick and the great team at new mandala.org, keep up the good work. Warm wishes for Xmas and Happy 2017. Din Merican@ http://www.dinmerican.wordpress.com
now they are praise a leader of movement as a new revolusioner or sort of the second amin rais back then when his middle axes succesed to block nationalist winner election in 1999 ,before set her in thin ice over her religion ,so let see what happen next,with big fund behind them, and rise of puritans everywhere ,i believe ahok still win, cos most of jakartans not too religious ..and ahok is the new ali sadikin
I believe everyone would be thankful if you stop copying and pasting nonsense from Rohingya Blogger. Those who are interested will go and read themselves. Comment section is for your own opinions. Not to copy and paste articles elsewhere. That’s spamming and copyright violation.
Gen Kampanat Ruddit, a former assistant army chief, has been appointed a new member of the Privy Council to advise His Majesty King Maha Vajiralongkorn Bodindradebayavarangkun.
Maungdaw, Arakan – Residents in Nga Khu Ra village tract , Northern Maungdaw Township, say that the murder of a local man was part of an orchestrated plan by the government.
U Dus Mohammed, who also goes by the name Shuna Miah, son of U Bozu Zama, from the middle hamlet of Nga Khu Ra village tract, spoke with Myanmar’s handpicked media team on the 21st of December. After that night he was reported missing. In the morning on the 22nd of December his body was recovered after it was found floating in a stream in Doe Tan Village, close to his village. The body was found decapitated and “cut into parts.”
In academia, Ye Htut offers more nuanced take on Rohingya
In a new paper titled “Rakhine Crisis Challenges ASEAN’s Non-Interference Principle,” released by ISEAS, Ye Htut departs from a career built on suppressing the use of the name “Rohingya,” rejecting that community’s right to citizenship and defending the military’s human rights abuses. Instead, using the word “Rohingya” 33 times in seven pages, Ye Htut calls for citizenship for the Muslim minority and humanitarian intervention by ASEAN to end their persecution.
The dead villager, Shuna Mya, told reporters on a government-guided visit to the area stories he had heard from local residents who said they had witnessed atrocities being committed by security forces that moved into northern Rakhine state to look for insurgents after the Oct. 9 attacks that left nine policemen killed.
Whilst I agree wholeheartedly with your plea, the answer is really “out there”. I’m writing this from a Starbucks in the new CENTRAL Westgate mega-mall in Bangkok’s north-western corner of Bang-Yai.
The place is crawling, as it always is at the weekend, with bovine types lapping-up the dubious delights of 21st century consumer culture. * A little note to some commentators, those of a particular ‘unique Thai’ bent, that’s not Thai consumer culture, just the common garden variety.
That this lot remotely possess the gumption to lead a meaningful renewal of their society truly stretches credulity, but lead it they must. So far, the regime has been able to buy time by the simple expedient of spending money it doesn’t have, lots of it, by borrowing. That spigot and all that flows from it – an insane property bubble and the Ponzi-banking system that supports it/is supported by it, can’t continue forever and just as has happened in Europe and America in 2007/08, and in Thailand itself in ’97, the inevitable crash will bring in it’s wake the conditions for real reform.
Too many commentators o these pages – especially those that make a living by reading the runes, look to the arcane or the simply irrelevant for their inspiration and interpretation. The simple fact is that without the kind of social safely nets that exist in the West, recession in Thailand and the rest of SE Asia will confront the middle classes with real stark choices, either economic evisceration or protest. With the family farm sold long ago to pay for that condo/town house, kids private education and the Ford Ranger in the drive, there won’t be anywhere else to run. So, protest it has to be, otherwise it’s time to dust-of that begging bowl.
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Inching toward Orwell
How would Orwell have written Politics And The THAI Language ? His “Politics And The ENGLISH Language” was written post-WW2. Hitler never claimed to be a “democrat”, and was rigidly anti-royalist. Orwell famously fought in Spain’s civil war. He’d probably label Prayut a Falangist. Franco was a royalist.
Inching toward Orwell
“various pro working-class governments before the latest military coup” include Thai Rak Thai, People’s Power Party, and Puea Thai. You really don’t know that?
Inching toward Orwell
Actually, Jim, I asked for more detail concerning “various pro working-class governments before the latest military coup” and not “recent governments supported by working-class Thais.
If you have difficulty seeing the difference, think of it this way: Donald Trump was “supported” by working-class Americans in the recent election but only a fool would imagine that that will translate into the Trump administration being a “pro working-class government”.
And, funny thing, I can’t for the life of me imagine any of the many working-class Thais I know receiving “hope” from the voices of Aj Pavin and Pridi before the recent coup. Obviously you know a whole different class of working-class Thais.
Enjoy your “keeping up” on matters related to Thai politics! And do spend some time considering what Orwell meant by “obliterating their own understanding of their history”.
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
Plight of Rohingya now an ASEAN issue
While ASEAN is in its early days of shaping a role in the cross-border implications of Arakan State’s volatility and stability in Burma, the retreat at least made it clear that this “internal” matter is now officially an ASEAN issue.
http://www.dvb.no/news/plight-rohingya-now-asean-issue/73330
Inching toward Orwell
Michael – OK, I’m beginning to see that you haven’t been keeping up on matters Thai. You ask for “more detail” regarding recent governments supported by working-class Thais. Try googling Thai Rak Thai, People’s Power Party, and Puea Thai. And ref “voices” – you can go from Pridi Banomyong to Pavin Chachavalpongpun and any number of patriots in-between who were exiled (or worse) by reactionary military/ammart interests.
Inching toward Orwell
I can assure you I have no problem differentiating between “pigs-at-the-trough” and working-class folks.
What I am having a problem with is my impression that you are either engaged in “obliterating” any and all understanding of Thai history or simply don’t know any.
Please just indulge a long-time admirer of Orwell and provide a few names for specific “voices” who provided hope for working-class people.
I would also appreciate a little more detail about the “various pro working-class governments before the latest military coup” that you so vaguely refer to.
Another quote from Orwell’s essay on political language in its propagandistic and thought-murdering mode:
” The writer either has a meaning and cannot express it, or he inadvertently says something else, or he is almost indifferent as to whether his words mean anything or not. This mixture of vagueness and sheer incompetence is the most marked characteristic of modern English prose, and especially of any kind of political writing.”
So do take the opportunity to veer away from the vague handwaving and share some specifics.
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
26 December 2016
A man has been found dead with stab wounds in Burma’s Arakan State, in what the government said on Monday was the second murder in under a week of a Rohingya who cooperated with authorities as they crack down on suspected insurgents.
http://www.dvb.no/news/muslim-links-government-murdered-arakan-govt/73322
wonder why there would be some here who would prefer this news is suppressed ?
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
Look in the mirror ………a mere three posts above this one .
An who would give any credence to one who purports to speak for every one ?
Inching toward Orwell
The “voices” I obviously am referring to are those who led and supported the government’s policies before the 2006 coup, and then again various pro working-class governments before the latest military coup. I see no evidence in your posts that you possess any understanding of the divide separating those working-class folks from the pigs-at-the-trough corrupt military/ammart interests.
Inching toward Orwell
Not to put too much stress on “meaning” in any given political political statement, since that in itself is an “Orwellian” operation, I wonder if you could identify some of those “voices” in their pre-coup manifestation and show how they gave “hope to working-class Thais”.
I would be interested if you would also address the obviously Orwell-inspired point of my post, i.e. the suggestion that the way a phrase like “democratically elected” is used to describe the previous administration is an instance of the kind of language Orwell excoriates in his much-loved essay “Politics and the English Language”.
I would like to add at this point that while this junta obviously lies and spouts nonsense in public and is promoting a crude program of propaganda aimed at everyone in Thai society from children on up, this is nothing unusual where governments are concerned and that all populations are subject to this sort of disrespect from their leaders, “democratically elected” or not.
Some people in subject populations around the planet prefer not to question the swill and just get on with getting and spending. Others obviously simply ignore what they know is garbage and do the same thing. While yet others call out the nonsense and make attempts to “set the record straight” as it were.
A further interesting group seems to spend an inordinate amount of time and energy going with the flow in their own societies and calling out the flaws and injustices visited upon other peoples in totally other societies, thus reproducing the kind of imperialist rhetoric that is so perfectly encapsulated in Kipling’s poem “Falang’s Burden” (to give it the appropriate Thai coloring here).
But my main interest is in questioning your lovely sounding assertion about the “voices that would bring a modicum of hope to working-class Thais”.
Who are they and what evidence do you have that while Yingluck was being besieged by folks wearing t-shirts with her image printed on it and promising “Free Tablet Computers!” as an education policy there were voices giving hope?
I saw a picture of Kim Jong-un being mobbed by schoolkids the other day, some crying with joy, some just gobsmacked by the presence of celebrity power.
I imagine that one day, after the DPRK gets absorbed into the economics of neoliberalism and the people lose their victim status, pictures like that will be held up by “Orwellians” to suggest that at least the Kim regime gave the people “hope”. I really hope that is not the kind of “hope” we are talking about here.
An alliance to secure electoral victory
Mat Rempit, you ask why 1MDB is not mentioned in the article?
Well, let’s see … The author is the current “Tun Abdul Razak Chair and Visiting Professor of Political Science at Ohio University.” Here’s what Ohio University tells us about this professorship:
“The Tun Abdul Razak Chair was established in 1980 by Ohio University’s Center for Southeast Asia Studies. The endowed chair [was] named after Malaysia’s second Prime Minister [who was father of the present one]. The [recipient of this award] is selected by the Malaysian Ministry of Education, the Tun Abdul Razak Council, and Ohio University [and is funded by] the Malaysian Government and matching funds from American firms with business interests in Malaysia.”
Is it any wonder that someone in this position does not include the 1MDB scandal and various other criminal acts in his analysis of Malaysian politics?
Academic freedom is one thing but academic suicide is quite another.
Inching toward Orwell
“Thai realities?” The reality today is that the Kingdom has entered a period of vicious repression of the voices that would bring a modicum of hope to working-class Thais. There was hope under the elected governments that preceded the most recent coup. Now?
Another year over
Nick and the great team at new mandala.org, keep up the good work. Warm wishes for Xmas and Happy 2017. Din Merican@ http://www.dinmerican.wordpress.com
Explaining the mass anti-Ahok rally turnouts
now they are praise a leader of movement as a new revolusioner or sort of the second amin rais back then when his middle axes succesed to block nationalist winner election in 1999 ,before set her in thin ice over her religion ,so let see what happen next,with big fund behind them, and rise of puritans everywhere ,i believe ahok still win, cos most of jakartans not too religious ..and ahok is the new ali sadikin
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
I believe everyone would be thankful if you stop copying and pasting nonsense from Rohingya Blogger. Those who are interested will go and read themselves. Comment section is for your own opinions. Not to copy and paste articles elsewhere. That’s spamming and copyright violation.
A new chapter, but the same old story
Gen Kampanat Ruddit, a former assistant army chief, has been appointed a new member of the Privy Council to advise His Majesty King Maha Vajiralongkorn Bodindradebayavarangkun.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1167520/gen-kampanat-joins-privy-council
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
Maungdaw, Arakan – Residents in Nga Khu Ra village tract , Northern Maungdaw Township, say that the murder of a local man was part of an orchestrated plan by the government.
U Dus Mohammed, who also goes by the name Shuna Miah, son of U Bozu Zama, from the middle hamlet of Nga Khu Ra village tract, spoke with Myanmar’s handpicked media team on the 21st of December. After that night he was reported missing. In the morning on the 22nd of December his body was recovered after it was found floating in a stream in Doe Tan Village, close to his village. The body was found decapitated and “cut into parts.”
http://www.rohingyablogger.com/2016/12/murder-of-nga-khu-ra-villager-who.html
Myanmar’s army marches on
In academia, Ye Htut offers more nuanced take on Rohingya
In a new paper titled “Rakhine Crisis Challenges ASEAN’s Non-Interference Principle,” released by ISEAS, Ye Htut departs from a career built on suppressing the use of the name “Rohingya,” rejecting that community’s right to citizenship and defending the military’s human rights abuses. Instead, using the word “Rohingya” 33 times in seven pages, Ye Htut calls for citizenship for the Muslim minority and humanitarian intervention by ASEAN to end their persecution.
http://www.dvb.no/news/academia-ye-htut-offers-nuanced-take-rohingya/73302
Confronting genocide in Myanmar
The dead villager, Shuna Mya, told reporters on a government-guided visit to the area stories he had heard from local residents who said they had witnessed atrocities being committed by security forces that moved into northern Rakhine state to look for insurgents after the Oct. 9 attacks that left nine policemen killed.
http://www.rfa.org/english/news/myanmar/headless-body-of-muslim-who-spoke-to-journalists-found-in-myanmars-maungdaw-12232016144345.html
Inching toward Orwell
Whilst I agree wholeheartedly with your plea, the answer is really “out there”. I’m writing this from a Starbucks in the new CENTRAL Westgate mega-mall in Bangkok’s north-western corner of Bang-Yai.
The place is crawling, as it always is at the weekend, with bovine types lapping-up the dubious delights of 21st century consumer culture. * A little note to some commentators, those of a particular ‘unique Thai’ bent, that’s not Thai consumer culture, just the common garden variety.
That this lot remotely possess the gumption to lead a meaningful renewal of their society truly stretches credulity, but lead it they must. So far, the regime has been able to buy time by the simple expedient of spending money it doesn’t have, lots of it, by borrowing. That spigot and all that flows from it – an insane property bubble and the Ponzi-banking system that supports it/is supported by it, can’t continue forever and just as has happened in Europe and America in 2007/08, and in Thailand itself in ’97, the inevitable crash will bring in it’s wake the conditions for real reform.
Too many commentators o these pages – especially those that make a living by reading the runes, look to the arcane or the simply irrelevant for their inspiration and interpretation. The simple fact is that without the kind of social safely nets that exist in the West, recession in Thailand and the rest of SE Asia will confront the middle classes with real stark choices, either economic evisceration or protest. With the family farm sold long ago to pay for that condo/town house, kids private education and the Ford Ranger in the drive, there won’t be anywhere else to run. So, protest it has to be, otherwise it’s time to dust-of that begging bowl.